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Phone Sex: American Dream
April 21, 2008 - 5:28am — Alexandra Hedison
[In response to Melissa Ferrick's Phone Sex question; “Do you think the constraints that the American Dream (i.e., find ONE life partner/get married/have kids) puts on our culture has influenced the way queers view and approach relationships and “true love"? Like taking the institution of marriage, for instance — it seems to me that queer women and men may have double the amount of relationships in their life than straight women and men do. I wonder what that has to do (if anything) with marriage rights?”]
I think the best way to answer this is for myself, rather than for straight people, or gay people, or queer people, or whatever the group is that may pertain to me. It seems that these categories and definitions can get us into a lot of trouble, especially when one so-called “member of the group” is asked to speak for the group itself.
From what I understand, those of us who call ourselves “queer” are in fact rejecting the traditional gender and sexual identities as a way of not feeling oppressed by the “heteronormativity” of the larger culture. So by terming ourselves “queer,” why would we look to sustain a traditional model that we have by definition rejected? Don’t get me wrong — I’m all for equal rights. I believe I will see a time when I have the same protection and constitutional rights as my straight friends. The inequity is appalling. That being said, there seems to me to be something sort of radical and exciting about being queer that in and of itself implies not having to consider the roles and so-called “dreams” that have been established by a dominantly straight and conservative culture.
Alternatively, I have witnessed my gay and lesbian friends try to mimic the choices and values of the straight world in which we live. I know that I have. Unfortunately, I had every desire to fit in. I was not a rebel. I had no need to be rejected by my friends or my family, or to feel separate from others. I think that in trying to assimilate, in trying to accept myself and have others accept me as a gay woman, I thought I needed the same rights of passage that any straight person thinks they need. It was no different for me. The problem though was that somewhere inside me was this sort of underground and secret homophobia that devalued every relationship I was in. And yes, to answer your question, for someone like myself who was trying to fit in, the fact that there was no government or even culturally sanctioned wedding prize being dangled before me and my girlfriend to christen our place in society didn’t help either. And maybe because the end of my relationships never meant divorce (not real divorce, anyway) it wasn’t such a big deal to break up. No one had spent money on a gift registry, there were no witnessed vows, no kids involved. Only my girlfriend and I felt the disappointment.
Then I would be with someone else for a few years. And then the one after her, and so on until I realized that I was too old to find a partner for life. Nearly half my life was over already, and I had been in these seemingly committed scenarios that ended, one after the next.
Again, I have straight friends who are in the same boat. Straight men and women who find themselves challenged by a social progression that questions old role models and the so-called “American Dream” of traditional relationships, marriage, and family. But maybe their experience is different because they never felt that their relationships, when they were in them, were of less value than I felt in mine.
The way I feel now is (as I mentioned) older, but also maybe a bit wiser. And in being wiser, I know that applying myself to any old construct — gay or straight — is a great disservice to myself. I am more aware of my own complexities, my own contradictions, and because of this am more willing to embrace who I am rather than put myself in a box in order to be unnoticed or more importantly, to not offend.
Lastly, it seems that the best way to answer the question of “how we approach true love” might be to suggest that we try loving ourselves truly, beyond our old definitions. I know that the way I identify myself has changed, and I am finding it harder and harder to come up with an appropriate one-word classification. Perhaps I should try “queer” for a while, and see how that feels.
So, my question for my friend Rachel Shelley will be a version of the one I just answered: Do you think the traditional, cultural views of marriage and family have influenced your relationships, your view of “true love,” or your desire to conform to the so-called “norms” of society? You have marriage rights. Has this affected your commitment in your relationships or your goals of longevity within them? Do straight people, in your experience, have fewer relationships than those of us whose partnerships aren’t legally sanctioned?
Or, if that question seems too complicated, here’s a simple one:
How come you’re so pretty?
[Check back next Monday for Rachel's answer]
I think the best way to answer this is for myself, rather than for straight people, or gay people, or queer people, or whatever the group is that may pertain to me. It seems that these categories and definitions can get us into a lot of trouble, especially when one so-called “member of the group” is asked to speak for the group itself.
From what I understand, those of us who call ourselves “queer” are in fact rejecting the traditional gender and sexual identities as a way of not feeling oppressed by the “heteronormativity” of the larger culture. So by terming ourselves “queer,” why would we look to sustain a traditional model that we have by definition rejected? Don’t get me wrong — I’m all for equal rights. I believe I will see a time when I have the same protection and constitutional rights as my straight friends. The inequity is appalling. That being said, there seems to me to be something sort of radical and exciting about being queer that in and of itself implies not having to consider the roles and so-called “dreams” that have been established by a dominantly straight and conservative culture.
Alternatively, I have witnessed my gay and lesbian friends try to mimic the choices and values of the straight world in which we live. I know that I have. Unfortunately, I had every desire to fit in. I was not a rebel. I had no need to be rejected by my friends or my family, or to feel separate from others. I think that in trying to assimilate, in trying to accept myself and have others accept me as a gay woman, I thought I needed the same rights of passage that any straight person thinks they need. It was no different for me. The problem though was that somewhere inside me was this sort of underground and secret homophobia that devalued every relationship I was in. And yes, to answer your question, for someone like myself who was trying to fit in, the fact that there was no government or even culturally sanctioned wedding prize being dangled before me and my girlfriend to christen our place in society didn’t help either. And maybe because the end of my relationships never meant divorce (not real divorce, anyway) it wasn’t such a big deal to break up. No one had spent money on a gift registry, there were no witnessed vows, no kids involved. Only my girlfriend and I felt the disappointment.
Then I would be with someone else for a few years. And then the one after her, and so on until I realized that I was too old to find a partner for life. Nearly half my life was over already, and I had been in these seemingly committed scenarios that ended, one after the next.
Again, I have straight friends who are in the same boat. Straight men and women who find themselves challenged by a social progression that questions old role models and the so-called “American Dream” of traditional relationships, marriage, and family. But maybe their experience is different because they never felt that their relationships, when they were in them, were of less value than I felt in mine.
The way I feel now is (as I mentioned) older, but also maybe a bit wiser. And in being wiser, I know that applying myself to any old construct — gay or straight — is a great disservice to myself. I am more aware of my own complexities, my own contradictions, and because of this am more willing to embrace who I am rather than put myself in a box in order to be unnoticed or more importantly, to not offend.
Lastly, it seems that the best way to answer the question of “how we approach true love” might be to suggest that we try loving ourselves truly, beyond our old definitions. I know that the way I identify myself has changed, and I am finding it harder and harder to come up with an appropriate one-word classification. Perhaps I should try “queer” for a while, and see how that feels.
So, my question for my friend Rachel Shelley will be a version of the one I just answered: Do you think the traditional, cultural views of marriage and family have influenced your relationships, your view of “true love,” or your desire to conform to the so-called “norms” of society? You have marriage rights. Has this affected your commitment in your relationships or your goals of longevity within them? Do straight people, in your experience, have fewer relationships than those of us whose partnerships aren’t legally sanctioned?
Or, if that question seems too complicated, here’s a simple one:
How come you’re so pretty?
[Check back next Monday for Rachel's answer]
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53 Comments
So, my question for my
So, my question for my friend Rachel Shelley will be "How come you’re so pretty?"
[Check back next Monday for Rachel's answer]
My question for the both of you (or its more a begg actually): I loved the Helena/Dylan Storyline alot and am still hoping for a "comeback" in Season 6 .. is there ANY chance for it to happen??
And when will we see the "Be Scene" Kiss??????
I know that wasn't at all a "topic related" comment, well my opinion on that is just - just do whatever you want or feel like, if you wanna get married (and I agree that that right should be for everyone, no matter what - and thank god in Germany we can, but my GF is from Malta and there gay-marriages are not allowed) then you should just go for it.
MelliBerlin
Coming Out at 39....
Alexandra:
That was a pretty profound and thought provoking response you wrote. About 9 months or so ago, I was just pluggin along in my idle life and I came across and old issue of Art Works magazine laying around.
Killing some time, I started thumbing through it. I ran across the article of you and your photgraphy. As I read the article I was moved by your coming out story that you were recounting for the journalist covering your story. As I sat there, in my idle life, reading this paragraph. Then rereading it. Rereading and so on. It finally all come together. I came across a person, you - who I do not know - but immediately related to your feelings in high school and the crying. Something I had surpressed for well 20 years now. (I'll be 39 next week).
I started to sweat and was getting hot. Suddenly my authentic self was pressing the flesh of my frame to well, come out. So this past 9 or so months has been well, interesting to say the least.
I never really approached coming out because I guess I never relly related to what lesbian life was. But after reading your response and to answer this for myself. Lesbian life is what I define for myself. I have had some gay women brush me off becuase I'm just "too attractive" to be gay. This shocked me.
So what I'm finidng is that I must define this world of gay life/existence for myself. Which brings me to your response that you are " too old" to find a partner."
This shocked me that you would truly feel that way. I don't know your age, but as someone my age just coming out, I too feel older, but also hopeful that I will find a wife(partner) to begin a family with. Legal no. But it's what I feel at my core to be true for me. Which is to be what I blieve to know as true.
I do believe in one person to build a life with. But that's just my opinion of what I want. A woman who is comiitd to work. To give me space and to give her space. To let her embrac her identity within our union and polsih it and hold on to it. Build it. To not lose it because we are now a "we." (I'm singl but I'm referring to when I meet my wife)That's where I see a lot of people gay/straight get lost. They are all bundled together in this "we" and they forget who they were/are have become. But I am diferent than most people in relationships. Maintaining who you are is key.
I want to thank you for sharing your coming out story in Art Works magazine. I related and you helped me, someone you don't know and will probably never know but by just sharing your life experience you allowed someone, me, to begin their life at the young age of 39!
When in the book store I find myself picking up Art Works Mag and flipping through it....you never know.
Good luck to you and your work and I hope you find exactly in life what you are looking for whether it be a partner now, later or just maybe sometimes now and then.
All The Best,
KiKi
What a fantastic topic to delve into ...
What a fantastic topic to delve into^^ (side note: this is why OC owns!)
For me, it’s complex. The idea of finding and committing yourself to a life partner is beautiful. Sharing the deep inner parts of your soul with someone, letting them in and knowing the best and darkest parts of yourself. Both of you being able to speak truth to one and other, completely open and honest, no matter how hard, telling the whole truth – this type of connection is what I crave. But hell I crave that in every type of relationship… anyway … Finding someone to walk with through this life as friends and lovers, building a rich and deep history together and maintaining falling in/out of love with that person is so extremely rare. Personally, I’m immensely private and guarded so this is a great challenge but my goodness have to believe it’s worth it – there is no other choice.
However, this is separate from so-called “true love”. I’m not sure that I believe in “true love”. Can love many people or parts of them. Besides people change so much over time, some of the things you find endearing will mostly likely change as well. In my short life, what’s key for me in finding that person is that our fundamental set of morals, beliefs, how we see the world, and desires are the same so we can grow together as a couple regardless of how we grow as individuals. Oh! and humor - can't live without laughter^^ Make sense?
Now as far as the impact traditional views of family and marriage … well for me, absolutely it’s had an impact. Made me buckle against the typical expectations of women and caused a delay in self-discovery of what I truely want. Generally speaking, was raised in very traditional and deeply religious large family. Mostly influenced by the mexican side of the family; luckily having the (semi) black sheep of the family for a mom was a blessing. It’s still a hard and complex situation. But just like everyone, my family is crazy. I don’t think there is a “normal” relationship in the bunch. There have been many relationships among the group and “traditional” really is not at all. Maybe it appears so because what I have seen is people stay together for the kids, fear of loneliness, fear of social repercussions, fear of dealing with the sheer taxing a divorce entails (emotionally and financially) – the list can go on but it is all fear based. Commitment/marriage/partnerships, whatever you call it, must be loved based – otherwise what’s the point, life is too short to sacrifice yourself and remain unhappy.
Regardless of everything - all I know is what I want, love and truth in a devoted relationship (until marriage is legal).
Peace & Love,
P~
Measuring a lifetime
Dear Alexandra:
Ilene is right, you know. Your life isn't nearly half over; it hasn't half begun. Yes, I am absolutely pulling rank as the elder Alix. Heaven knows why, but I care. At times I've felt much the same as you do, only to have love walk in and bite me in the butt. How do you measure a lifetime, anyway?
Perspective: August 25, 1969 was my first wedding anniversary. I spent eleven years with A, and had his child. He wasn't my life partner, and we didn't live happily ever after. Thank God ! By year nine it seemed interminable. The divorce was protracted and bloody. Even so, I never shed as many tears over it as I would over the women I've loved. Women don't merely become lovers, we share our deepest secrets, bare our souls - ammunition for later use. My gut and my home were never so disrupted by divorce as by the endings of relationships that followed. The lack of State approval was never really germane; my heart and ego were.
"... Birds do it, bees do it ..."
The urge to merge and periodically nest doesn’t really seem to be either hetero or homo normative, or even dimly related to any cognitive function. Pairing off, for any number of reasons, for whatever length of time, appears to be almost a given in the animal world, and not particularly hetero, or even monogamous. While there's always some societal overlay placed on human pairing - no matter where or when one lives - consider this: parrots mate for life without contracts or clergy.
The real answer may be as simple as a need for heart to beat upon heart, or pulses to rhyme. Every relationship is a unique time capsule that cannot be measured in days, acquisitions, or privilege. Some work, some don't, but the occasional glimpse of transcendence keeps us trying anew. Short and glorious might well trump long and tedious.
Barring disease or disaster, your next - or current - love could last to your nineties or beyond. She may already be on stage, or not yet in the wings. Nurture love without trying to mold it into known shapes. Draw your own maps. With love, a few years can be a lifetime.
For the record, love walked in again at fifty-four, after I'd given it up and turned my back. It may last until the twelfth of never, or fate may have other plans. I'm clue-free, but I can tell you this: I will never be too old to try.
With great affection,
Alix
Gawd, what a great post!
Thanks, wow. I want to be like you when I grow up, Alix. :) Peace, Jodie
When I grow up,
... I want to be like Ilene Chaiken.
Thank you, so very much, Jodie. I'm truly glad you liked my post. I feel a tremendous sense of responsibility toward the next generation of gay women.
My friends and I have a new, hard-won home of our own on the FortyUp Forum. Come talk with us whenever you'd like: http://www.ourchart.com/forum/364 You don't have to be over 40, and you'll find some familiar "faces."
Warmest regards,
Alix
Alix, Wonderful post. Thank
Alix, Wonderful post. Thank you.
KiKi
Kiki, welcome ...
to our word and our world. Thank you for extending your friendship, and for reminding us how interconnected we all are. Even small ripples reach outward.
This isn't an original thought, but good things really do grow in their own time. I remember how I felt. Right now, everything is deliciously new for you, every touch electric, every glance a possibility - a whole landscape of discoveries. Savor every moment. I wish I could do it all over again.
Alix
Alix,
you give me hope, friend. I had given up on ever loving again - not that I didn't want to love - I just didn't want to get hurt again. Lately, I've realized that I can't give up on the possibility of love - no matter how much it may hurt or how much it may heal! My heart is wide open - if it's not filled with one it will be filled by all.
Nothing but love
Tex
... sand
Darling Tex,
I rather like this thought: The way to hold sand is in an open hand - if you try to grasp it, it will run out between your fingers.
Once you utterly surrender to fate, give it up, and turn your back, love will find you (even in Texas). It's the strangest damn thing.
Signing off for the night.
Flights of angels,
Alix
I am a married heterosexual
I am a married heterosexual woman but as you can see from my name I am confused. I thought there was great freedom and love that came with being a lesbian or whatever you want to call it. Ive read your blogs and dont understand why you need marriage other than for money or health benefits. The norm makes you stuck with the same person whether you like it or not. You do it because you should or because of the kids or the family or because you dont know what else to do. I would think that without that option you would be with who you love until one of you doesnt love the other anymore. It seems to be a better way to live. I know so many people who either dont love their spouse or wonder if their spouse loves them and they stay together because of their marriage rights I dont know if you can call that right.
Marriage Issue
Amongst my group of 'queer' friends I have been considered odd because I do not believe in the term gay marriage. It is refreshing to see that I am not the only one who thinks this way. The heteronormative lifestyle is something I think queer people strive to emulate. While it is a great choice for some, I think that as a queer person you should strive to find your own way of life beyond the cultural and societal norms. Why is it that we as homosexuals feel the need to get married, have kids and live a 'normal life'? For me being queer is something I cherish and in that I find a sense of community. In a community full of so many types, I think we should create our own individual definition of marriage, relationships and happiness. Thanks for the post and I am glad to see there are others out there with a great opinion.
How come you are so pretty Alexandra?
I have one question for you, how come you are so pretty Alexandra?
Thank you for the beautiful post.
Good luck with everything you do.
... I ADORE YOU
No Labels
You know, being authentic to WHO WE ARE is so much more important than WHAT WE ARE. True love is non judgmental.
As lesbians, and I use that term to identify who we love....... not how we love, our journey is guarded and sometimes painful. But, through those journeys ,if we are in fact blessed with a TRUE LOVE, it is as real as the morning or the gentle rain in springtime.
Our love must be real. We have no examples to follow, no heros to emulate, no history to guide us.
We, as a community , must never feel that a label binds us to an action...... to be butch,femme,soft,or whatever...... is basically to be unsure of ourselves. We are Women. We love Women. Must society understand us? No. Must society respect us? Yes.
And , My Dear Alexandra............. will you find a true,passionate love ? Of course.
Are you too old to find a true partner for life? Don't even think like that, if your heart is open and your expectations are true and authentic, it will come to you. Love is sometimes illusive, but not impossible to achieve.
Peace and True Love. ;-)
say what?!
I'm a little confused as to how butch/femme identity relates to whether or not society must understand and respect us as lesbians, but nonetheless...
"to be butch,femme,soft,or whatever...... is basically to be unsure of ourselves"
If true love is "non-judgmental," as you say, I'd sure love for more of my lesbian sisters who don't identify within the butch/femme spectrum to show more true love to those of us who do. Or at the very least, a little of that respect you are so keen to demand of others.
The path less taken
"The problem though was that somewhere inside me was this sort of underground and secret homophobia that devalued every relationship I was in. . . . And maybe because the end of my relationships never meant divorce (not real divorce, anyway) it wasn’t such a big deal to break up."
I was touched by your words. As much as I don't like to face it, I guess I have to agree that the pressure of conformity infiltrates my life and makes me sometimes act as if I devalue my own relationship. Even though I have been with my partner for 19 years, I have not always been able to show my love and affection to her in non-gay friendly environments. While my straight friends and family acknowledge and accept our relationship, I can not discuss many details of our relationship with them, always worried that it will make them uncomfortable. However, for me, the inability to marry has not undermined my long term relationship. I somehow feel vindicated that we have stayed together so long in the face of such adversity. I have stayed true to my emotional self after discovering that my long search for emotional fullfillment did not occur with a man, but did with a woman.
I have heard it said that a divorced woman who discovers that she is a lesbian, actually holds some higher status in the larger society because she carries a "badge of respectability;" she can still mark the divorced column in the questionaire that asks: marrierd, single, or divorced--there is no "other" column.
Maybe hetero couples actually do more compromising in order to live the American dream. I actually know two women who married the wrong people and then divorced simply because it was SO important to have the wedding.
The way we view love may also be informed by societal, and familial imposition of ethnic and religious identity. I have also made unsucessful attempts to comform in these areas, i.e., of the four ethnicities that make up my parents, I choose to call myself Italian, because is seems like more fun; and, I tried to adopt a religion (mother was fallen away protestant, and father was fallen away Catholic), but none has seemed right for me.
All that being said, I am as uncomfortable in having my relationships shaped by the gay community as by the heteo community; neither paradigm seems to fit for me.
Finally, I don't think one is ever too old to find "for ever after love." My partner was 49 when she met me, and although she had had several relationships before me, she said that she had never actually been in love before. We are much like the Sally Field movie Murphy's romance. In he movie a younger, divoced Sally Field falls for a much
older, I think widowed James Garner. When they finally get together she says to him: "I'm in love for the first time in my life." He says to her: "I'm in love for the last time in my life."
Regards, ATK
Dare You Answer This Question?
I have some tough questions. Hopefully, one of the Phone Sex Columnists will answer.
Btw, I love being a part of this community. I love the honesty here. I love the warmth and support people offer each other. I love the intelligent and crazy conversations and dialogue we're having right now.
Anyway, I've told a few of my friends I'm gay - and then they usually follow-up with the qn "So you don't ever want to be with a guy?" - and I say - "I have no attraction to guys at this point in my life - but I'm not saying I never will."
My question is - Is there pressure within the gay community to "stay gay"? If our argument is that we should not discriminate between love between straight couples and gay couples, then are we open to our gay friends turning straight?
It's interesting - considering the backlash Tina got on the show when she went hetero. But this happens in real life too, right?
Some time ago, when I was still figuring things out, I felt my gay friends shut me out when I shared similar thoughts aloud. Maybe I offended them. Maybe I was insensitive. Perhaps they felt that while I was questioning my life, I was questioning theirs as well.
It's becoming more socially acceptable (or cool) to be gay now. So is it uncool to be turn straight? Or even to be a bisexual?
Especially when one is a celebrity gay - does that exact a prison on that person for life - what if he or she falls in love with someone of the opposite sex?
Thoughts anyone? I'm sorry if I hit a nerve - but sometimes we need to talk about stuff to rethink how we think - if that makes sense.
do I know you?
I've never known anyone that turned straight but it does raise a good thought. I think it is no different that when someone ends a relationship after a long period of time. My best friend ended a relationship after 6 years. I didn't know how to continue the friendship with the ex.. Isn't this about the same. Neither turned straight but like what happened to Tina your circle suddenly becomes different. I think the pressue being felt is trying to be yourself with someone new and your friends are saying OMG I really don't know this person anymore. I think we have a very hard time really understanding people we are close to. Even though we would say we've known them for years...do we really?.
Good point...
... and I do believe it hits a nerve.
Reasons? People want garantuees when they fall in love. Someone who says: I could fall in love with both sexes - well, the risk, or so we believe doubles.
I don't think it's true though. It all depends on commitment. If I fall in love at that moment: I can't imagine to love anyone else. Be it man or be it woman. And: I make a decision.
Everyday there is a chance that I'll meet another person I could fall in love with, but if I'm in a relationship, then that's my focus.
Of course there is also the point of sex. Being with someone who says: I enjoy both... well, it makes you wonder if one year later maybe there'll be something missing. If a woman enjoys the act of heterosexual intercourse, well, it's something I certainly never will be able to provide...
sorry missundercover56 and
sorry missundercover56 and beawineo
for not replying earlier i checked alex's blog for a few days - but i'm like techno-challenged and didn't realise that when you hit reply to a comment, it appears below not right at the top.. lol! so i didn't know anyone replied to my comment and even if you'll read this.
anyways - i ditto the commitment part, missundercover. definitely.
i wld like to question - whether a person enjoys both - cldn't there be something missing anyway after one year? i guess, them being bisexual, that's another qn or doubt to ponder over.
yeah, i know what you mean.
maybe it's one of those - no point thinking abt it too much until it happens - or maybe shld not let urself get into something you know that it'll probably happen.
yeap beawineo, "I think we have a very hard time really understanding people we are close to." omg - so true.
some friends who've known me for years and know my fuck-ups just have seen me as a fuck-up. and then i make new friends and i'm still amazed at how much they like me and how they hold me in regard. and my friends just have put me in a box. so yeah.
i'm sorry to hear that that person that broke up after 6 years was unceremoniously cut out of the group. but that's life, i guess.
...
I've never subscribed to the notion that I need to be married to have my relationship validated. I don't need a religion, government or any other institution to recognize that I love someone. I don't think there is 'The One' either.
When I was in my late teens, I did feel the need to get married to a man and start a family, because that was what I was taught and what was considered normal. When I was twenty, I figured out I was one the gays and it made me question the world around me. Am I less of a person because I won't be married with kids and a house?
Having said that, unfortunately, I am currently married. My girlfriend, who is 17 years older than I am, has the notion that you must be married to have acceptance and to make the relationship 'real'. I did not want to get married, but after being asked every two weeks for a year (even though she knows my stance), it sort of wore me down. It made her extremely happy. We got married in Toronto. Even though it is not recognized here, we are legally married in Canada.
In this day with media overload, I think the world view has started to change slowly and the traditional "values" are starting to dissipate and change. We still have a long way to go before the world catches up to what we already to know - love is just that.. love.
For the most part, I do not define myself because I just simply am. Finding a single word to define yourself? That is a difficult task.
Thanks for your honesty and age is simply relative and has nothing to do with quality of life or finding someone.
--==--==--
I've Woken Now To Find Myself In The Shadows Of All I Have Created
Thank you...
... for this. Loved the post as a whole and the discussion that follows up here.
I'm not really sure if I do have an opinion on marriage, boxes and equal rights. The thing about boxes is: others want us to fit in theirs whereas we like to choose our own box for ourselves. Not only relationship wise, it's in all aspects of our lives.
Identifying myself: I admit, that I have a hard time doing that. I put myself in another box if I say I'm a lesbian, but is that really a better box? I know it sounds corny, but I really believe that there is no difference. Loving a male, loving a female... it all depends on me and how I love. I can be comitted, I can be a cheat, but that's about me. Not who I love.
I like the idea of making it official that I love someone. I like the idea that everyone will know that I have made a decision to share my life and everything around it with another person, because that says something about me as a person.
Anyway: I have to say this - thank you OC. Lately I'm in awe of all the content and the really deep discussions here. You all do a great job!
Thanks Alex
Nice to read your blog Alex. I must say, I stumbled upon L Word when I first came across youtube vids of you and Rachel in your scenes as Dylan and Helena. It would be great to have you back in S6.
A few questions came up in my mind when I read your piece:
1. When you reach the stage where you love yourself truly, do you think it is still possible to have the "underground and secret homophobia that devalued every relationship I was in"?
2. If the answer to #1 is no, will it then change your mind/feelings about "marriage"?
3. If the answer to #1 is no, will it also change your mind about being "too old to find a partner for life"?
I can't wait to read Rachel's answer to how come she's so pretty. Maybe she will agree that her creator was just showing off.
The most honest piece....
Alex's remarks have been the most honest and sweet words I've ever read from TALENT on OURCHART todate. I was taken back. I've always said, honesty is the most powerful tool in the Universe. You articulated everything with heart. You're last question to Rachel is very sweet, although I'd imagine Rachel's so over her looks and their effect on people by now. Although hearing that from you might change the tide.
If I had a fantasy: Sequel THE PEABODY'S OR DYLENA THE SERIES. No other couple IMHO burns the screen like DYLENA. I've seen Helena with others but Dylan burns Helena to the touch.
Now, of course I have to thank IC for listening to my rants and raves and bringing back Rachel. The over the top part was bringing Alex back as well. IC if you don't do a Dylena in S6 just KILL ME NOW!
Kudos to all. DYLENA NOW AND FOREVER.
Alex I thought about your photography exhibit DECONSTRUCTION when I drove by the former Bellvue Hospital off the FDR in NYC. They were taking it down and it was absolutely beautiful. I was planning to photograph it but life was a bit hectic. There is a point in Deconstruction and Construction where you really can't tell the different. I wonder what they call that. Kind of like there is a point when extremely cold water and hot water feel the same. Kudos to your work.
When God created Rachel she was just showing off.
www.RachelShelleyUnplugged.com
PS. I can't believe I'm agreeing with IC on this. But yes you have plenty time to find a life partner. PUHLEASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSE. If you put the work in up front, you'll have everything in the end. Love yourself and make a list of the kind of person you want, forget about it. Then she'll walk into your life soon enough. I was straight when I met Mrs. Ripley (this title is an RSU thing), but I wasn't too full of myself to recognize the gift God was sending me. 22years and still strong.
Marriage Imprisons--
The permanence of adopting a companion till "death do you part" is counter productive to personal evolution. It presupposes that we can only reach full development when linked to another being and therefore devalues the importance of community and individual process.
How ludicrous is it to believe that there exists one being for each human and that being has the purpose of fulfilling a missing part of the self! How insulting to be told that we are less then whole without a lover/wife/partner! "Missing parts of the self" are merely parts that are in process. Our need to believe that we are owed a "ONE" by the universe is a lazy compensation for self-actualization.
Recently, I've begun thinking about acquiring a child at some point. That dream is centered around my need to create an environment for a little person to be born free. It's a selfish future project, a personal challenge to normalize the concept of freedom for a developing human being. I want to parent outside of our often cruel and, autocratic model that pretends that the married family is sufficient community. And we wonder why we're so disconnected!
I have never been able to add just ONE person in the room with me when daydreaming about this supposed child. And when I do force a human being in there, the scene is unbalanced. I want many people in that scene. I want a life filled with animals, humans, trees, fruits and vegetables. I want to parent a female child (my current choice) to understand that I am NOT the limitation of knowledge and therefore I cannot cage her. I can't teach her this if I subscribe to partnership as it exist to date.
Marriage, partnerships, and the popular ideas of love are akin to personal prisons. "Growing together" is trite and lacks any real power because it usually means growing stagnant together.
Exactly--
Edited.
We're speaking in bananas and oranges.
Your post actually reminded
Your post actually reminded me a lot of Grace Moon's, in that there is so much intellectualsing going on. I have known many queer folk like this: processing, intensely interested in identity, what is "heteronormative," "love as art" that kind of thing. It's interesting to me, why the level of living in one's head--I think it comes with the territory for a people who are so forced to think about identity. Nevertheless, I think there is something you could call the "gut punch test" in life--ie, what the hell really hurts you? As humans, we form families, and whether marriage may last for decades or not, it doesn't seem to be going away any time soon, even though 50% of people may divorce. Here was a good gut punch for me--back before I was basically out, but mostly gettin there, my mother and uncle did a very alienating symbolic thing to me--they gave my deceased grandmother's china to my uncle's stepson's wife, bypassing me, the favorite grandchild and would-be rightful inheritor of that possession.
I won't ever forget that. Gay people are kept out of family in very profound ways, and these things are not intellectual, they have to do with binding us to our families, to our histories. I do believe in marriage, and in commitment, and in having these things be present for society as a whole and families one by one so that queer folk don't have to form a community only of themselves.
Relationships take work.
Relationships take work. Whether it’s romantic, friendship, family, gay/straight, it doesn’t matter. You might consider it a labor of love. Some are just not interested in that aspect of it. New isn’t always better. I believe we all yearn for meaningful connections with others. Just because I want a loving, long-term, committed relationship doesn’t mean I am buying into the traditional model or selling out to a heterosexual construct. As flawed as I might be, there’s something immensely rewarding to working through issues and forging a relationship that can withstand the test of time. I’m grateful to have someone to share this journey called life with.
imho, lesbians have just as good a chance at finding life partners to spend their lives with as our heterosexual counterparts. Heterosexuals struggle with relationships too. Divorce rates are high and they have the institution of marriage, religion and society on their side. The institution of marriage is not a panacea nor does it guarantee a happily ever after.
I do believe we are living through a cultural revolution of sorts. Traditional roles (male/female) are being redefined in heterosexual relationships. Women no longer have to be trapped in that old paradigm of marriage. Women have options and are finally free to define for themselves what they want. I work with several women who have stay-at-home dads. The wife is the provider. And, it’s interesting to see the reaction from others because they do represent an alternative lifestyle.
Fitting in and wanting to belong
Alexandra, I appreciate what you wrote here, and I relate to the “not putting yourself into a box in order to fit in” way of thinking about things. That takes courage.
Forgetting the historical reasons, which created the necessity for marriage and the forever concept for a minute, I feel the “find one true love and stay together forever” notion is more about people wanting to “fit in” with the established norm of society than wanting to emulate straight behavior. The feeling of simply wanting to belong is a powerful draw for most, regardless of what gives someone his/her “other” status. It just so happens that in this regard the straight folks hold sway, because they are the majority of the population, therefore, their behavior sets the norm.
I mean hypothetically, let’s say the norm for committed folks of the majority of any culture, regardless of their gender, color, ethnicity, religion, sexual preference, etc. was to display their deep loving commitment to another by hanging upside down from a horizontal bar with their loved one for one hour a day. Then I’d bet most people would be inclined to try to duplicate that behavior in order to show their serious commitment in the established norm of their surrounding culture.
Let’s face it being authentic to oneself is difficult when the authentic behavior of the individual goes against the norm of society. So in order to keep myself in line with my authentic self, my personal litmus test is measured by the amount of peace I feel in my life. That is my authentic “norm.” I like to fit in as much as the next person, but if I really can't bring myself to hang like a bat from a horizontal bar for an hour, I wouldn’t do it just to fit in. Sometimes the cost to fit in comes at a price I'm just not willing to pay.
And finally, I really hope to see you and Rachel back together for S6! You two were great together!
Right or Wrong
I am finding it harder and harder to come up with an appropriate one-word classification. Perhaps I should try “queer” for a while, and see how that feels.
Hey I think you should try :
Hi I'm Alex and I am queer or
Hi I'm Alex and I'm a women or
Hi I'm Alex and I really don't care what you think I am..
Hasn't trying to become just like everyone else destroyed ourselves. Why do I want to be like all the hetro's out there. What, they can get married and we can't? Is that really so important. Isn't that fitting into the norm when all the while the Norm is our problem. Why can't
we be women first. Why is it that we need to say hey over here I'm a lesbian. What does this do? I haven't seen any job app or resume or help wanted add saying they are seeking lesbians. Why do we need to be anything but women. Hetros have the rights of what, to get married, divorced, kids, alimony, spousal support, benefits.. what else. I think as a women we should tackle these issues because they are important to women. Not just because we are lesbians. Hetro, is it the norm and who can change the way society thinks. Women raise kids, women have jobs, women are involved in communities and women are business leaders and political advisors. It's in our hands, we can change the world we just haven't stood together and made up our minds as to what is important for women.
Alex you can call yourself anything you want, but you are a beautiful woman.
Alexandra, I so admire your
Alexandra, I so admire your thoughtfulness not to mention your elegant turn of phrase. I just have to make one comment... TOO OLD to find a partner for life?! Apart from the fact that you are practically still a child, you, my dear, are far more qualified not to mention statistically likely to find a so-called life partner at your venerable age than you might have been however many years ago... more self aware, wiser, less likely to experience some huge existential jolt to your conditioned beliefs and assumptions. The idea that we'll pair off in the bloom of youth and stick together through callow, feckless, unpredictable, fascinating decades seems absurd, and I'm mystified that so many have soldiered through. The revelation that you've articulated here so poignantly is that there might be other ways (other than the conventional, hetero-normative ways) to piece together a fulfilled and fulfilling life - not devoid of romance, but perhaps with fewer expections and less clinging. Seems to me you are sensing greater opportunities for richer deeper connections and in that there will be less likelihood of becoming devastated by a single disappointment. And yes, knowing and keeping company with yourself is the ultimate best relationship. Thanks to both you and Melissa for joining the conversation with such verve. Ilene
I sooooooooooooo agree
Ilene you know what you are talking about girl. So bhow was your weekend away? have fun? Tell us all about it lol.We are enquiring minds We all wana know.
Thank you Ilene for calling
Thank you Ilene for calling Alex out at the mere suggestion that she may be too old! I wanted to do the same but you said it much more eloquently than I would have!
American Dream?
I'm not so sure that heterosexuals who have been married a long time are soooo happy and 'livin' the dream'. Perhaps the fact that marriage is a lot messier to end than a common-law relationship, keeps straight couples together. And perhaps, all those trappings of the approval of others by way of marriage further serves to keep married people trapped in lifeless partnerships... just a thought.
As for Rachel, why are you so pretty AND so darn nice???
It becomes a habit
You're used to this person, he's used to you. So what there's no spark anymore? Then you reach an age or have a catastrophic illness and think "if I don't stick with this guy, who will take care of me when I can no longer take care of myself?" Heterosexual marriage is about comfortability more than passion, more of an endurance test than anything else.
lesbian american dream
You touched on some serious truths about acceptance. I think for many of us we get caught up in the "lesbian american dream" in order to feel like we are somehow finally going to be socially accepted. I've awakened from the dream to see that we ultimately must accept ourselves, embracing the many unique complexities of our relationships.
Trying to stay outside of the box and color outside of the lines...
Similarity
Alex, of course I like your answer because it is similar to my own thinking on this topic.
I also like your questions for Rachel, the complicated one and the simple one. Smile.
Are you saying that
the desire for long-term committed relationship is conforming to an heterosexual norm?
V
P.S. My favorite line: "I am more aware of my own complexities, my own contradictions, and because of this am more willing to embrace who I am rather than put myself in a box in order to be unnoticed or more importantly, to not offend." Really good stuff!
Thanks Alex
wow great response thanks Alex!
Melissa
So true!
Thank you for the very thoughtful and insightful response, Alex. Personally, I am not entirely convinced that it is useful or even possible to find that one word that accurately classifies our identity. I mean, do you really like just one flavor of ice cream? Saying, “I am chocolate” just doesn’t work for me.
When I was younger I know it felt more important because it connected me to people who were having similar experiences and that gave me strength. Now that I am older the commonly used labels and paradigms feel narrow and I have felt boxed in by them. Our identities are so personal and unique and the process of discovering and celebrating our authentic selves seems at odds with that one word we or society often affixes to our foreheads. Now I just say I am someone on this wonderful journey and I take great pride in all the complex, diverse, special, frustrating, silly things that I am and that is where I find my strength.
I am also glad you are trying to get to the bottom of Rachel Shelley’s pretty. Nice work.
Am curious ...
to know why Alex is trying on the 'queer' identity to see if it fits? What, if any, were the restrictions or deficiencies she felt with the 'lesbian' identity?
Apart from this, ever since I heard about you since your relationship with Ellen DeGeneres, you have somehow come across to me as a person with a strong, non-conformist, independent streak. I don't know why I feel this way - I only know you as a celebrity, your galaxy and mine are light years apart. Nonetheless, you have been a curiously attractive personality to me.
Thanks for writing this article with such candor and insight.
Wow. I feel you, Alex. Upon
Wow. I feel you, Alex. Upon reading this, I was drawn to this show I saw a few days ago. I forget what channel - but it was about Gender. I want to say it was the NGC, but I don't remember if it was on the 'Sex and the Brain' segment, or if it was PBS. I just remember that they were talking about in certain cultures, women had rights - and could leave their 'husband'. Like one tribe of American Indians, in their culture, it was completely sanctioned for women to leave, if she moved her clothes and belongings into her parents 'tent' - or if he was viewed as a weak person, by the tribe.
This culture of Queen Victoria 'forever' model of a family, has lasted and made an impression of being the only accepted way.
I still say, if those 'boobie' prizes were ever taken away and stripped - I wonder what the divorce rate, and marriage rate, would be like. And seriously, is marriage just about those 'privileged rights'? How many times have people pondered, "if we get married, things would be so much easier"? I know I've heard it...and they were straight.
Are those marriage rights the only thing holding the sanction of married together? Wow, right now I'm thinking Tina Turner and "what's love got to do with it".
Anyway, I love your questionable punchline at the end.
Beauty and brains *sigh*
rovermom :)
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ngc sex and the brain
That segment focused primarily on Autism and savants. But touched on some very interesting points though not in-depth. I need to watch it again.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Yeah, that's what I thought. I watched it and was very interesting. I really think I saw, or saw part of, another show about gender - either I fell asleep or I was trying to watch two shows at the same time. I'm not sure. Did they talk about gender and marriage? I'm thinking it was another Documentary.
It comes back on this Friday, at 3pm - I'm DVR'ing it
rovermom :)
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