Not a member? Join now
wake-upbanner image

Female Monsters

You know what I despise most about talking about sexism? It’s the fact that you can dismiss accusations of sexism with sexism. And, if I bring up the topic of sexism as it applies to the MSM's treatment of Hillary Clinton, it will probably get dismissed with “Oh yeah, but what about racism?” or “I’m not sexist, but Hillary’s a bitch.” The sexist rhetoric goes unnoticed because its actually embedded in our language.

In fact, the very act of me claiming sexism can get me labeled all sorts of unattractive sexist things reserved especially for women. If I claim that sexism played a large role in the unpleasantness of the Democratic primaries and the painful decline of the Clinton campaign am I hysterical? Am I a harpy? One of the biting flies from Sartre?

I could be any number of monsters: Medusa, Gonerill, Medea. Maybe I’m just a sore loser? If we really deconstruct it, I’m probably monstrous for wanting a position of power in the first place. Who knows what could happen if we put a woman in power! Hillary’s vag might just open up like a giant sheela na gig and the entire country would fall right in! It’s a good thing we aren’t taking that risk. Besides, without a man around the house, who’d change the light bulbs?

You know what really makes me ill right now? The MSM dancing on Clinton’s grave. The body isn’t even cold. The body isn’t even dead yet! Hillary announced she'll suspend her campaign and endorse Obama on Saturday and the MSM is gleefull and smug. But smug about what? Is it excitement about Obama? It feels more like a celebration of Clinton losing than it does Obama winning.

When has there ever been this much vitriol directed at a primary candidate? She’s not a Republican. The press is acting as if she did something wrong by running. I don’t get it. Aren’t we all part of the same party? Clinton’s ability to keep her head up while under constant attack apparently equals “Deranged Narcissism,” because, of course, it’s a woman’s role to be polite. Guess what people? The guys fuck up all the time and the MSM yawns and changes the channel. But Hillary wears the wrong suit and it’s news for weeks.

Fine, I will support Obama and I will be happy to do so. But I would like the man much more if he turned a little attention to the systematic sexism that has not just held us back but gotten us all labeled witches and led to the metaphorical burning of Clinton at the stake. Hillary Clinton really didn’t have a chance because as Monty Python so perfectly put it, “If she weighs more than a duck, she’s a witch.”

106 Comments

Huh?

What are you talking about? I live in L.A. and have for 25 years. I registered 30 new Democrats to vote at Long Beach PRIDE a few weekends ago, and I'll be working with the Stonewall Young Democrats at CSW L.A. Pride this weekend. So I would say I'm pretty actively participating in this election . . . What was your point?

My bad? Not into trading insults

I am very excited for your enthusiastic participation in the process. Every voter deserves the dignity and opportunity to exercise their right to vote. You should be commended for your efforts. Thank you for introducing Americans to one of their most precious of rights. As your previous post suggests, my candidate and her views are askew from the rest of the nation. Your insults to the millions who saw it differently however, have the right to dissent from yours and others opinions. Afterall, it is our right as Americans is it not? Most Obama supporters in the media and here on OC have demonized us and have inferred that we are either racists, sexists or just plain ignorant. No, my vote isn't being manipulated in that fashion. The most popular candidate wasn't selected. Nothing that you can say will change that reality. I hope for Senator - soon to be President - Obama much success in the coming months. I believe that Hillary will sincerely endorce and fully participate in his campaign for president. Bill and others will rally behind him as well. As for those supporters that say they will vote for McCain well, they have been condescended to too often by the media and Obama supporters. How many times should you face defeat before you surrender? Better still, your elected officials tell you what's better for you than you deciding for yourself. What's wrong with defiantly declining to participate?
I'm just sayin'.....

...

"If I claim that sexism played a large role in the unpleasantness of the Democratic primaries and the painful decline of the Clinton campaign am I hysterical? Am I a harpy? One of the biting flies from Sartre?"

no worse - they'd call you a "feminist"!!!! i don't think that barack's seixst, but i think that he has used sexism to his advantage in this race. there's actually a blog that has been keeping track of sexism used against hillary and it's a little frightening. the sexism is so easy to miss. it's funny; i'm taking a litertaure and gender class online this semester and there are things that some of the men and women in my class totally overlook. there's so much more there but it flies over their heads since they sometimes approach the stories from truly trained, gender-socialized brains, even though the purpose of the class is to examine this.

here's a links from that blog I spoke of (I swear it's the only one i peak at besides yours). if you scroll down a little more than halfway, you'll see their "hillary sexism watch" and links to the 104 instances they've captured so far.

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2008-05-31T10%...

No one.

No one could have summed up the entirety of my thoughts and emotions at this current moment better than this. You have my heart.

I never understood the need

I never understood the need to trash a candidate just because you support another.Let alone NOT vote for one ,because yours loss.

A group of 5th grade boys in my class got into a fight about Obama/Clinton. I told them that they could not discuss the election if they couldn't do it without being ugly about either candidate.

They obeyed and it just tickled me silly that some actually knew their stuff:D

j'aime bien cet impératif

j'aime bien cet impératif :
traduis toi toi même ! ;-)

Ok (j'espere que ca encombre pas trop, une version française sur un forum américain !)

Il faut juste que je retrouve le mail de Segolène qui explique sa position sur le "libéralisme".

(sprechen Sie Französisch ?)

je l'ai si tu le cherches

je l'ai si tu le cherches encore, envois moi un message

vas-y donc

Il y a bon nombre d'entre nous qui parle français. Ou au moins Québécois :p

auch Deutsch ;)

t'as raison

ça encombre déjà le fait d'être en français sauf que ça donne un charme certain. merci de bien vouloir jouer. cela dit, il faut pas supposer que nous connaissons la Belle Royal. on connait rien sur rien. figure-toi que les journaux ici ne parlent pas de vos candidats femmes.

english speakers: check-out what france COULD HAVE HAD for president. Segolen Royal is gorgeous, chic, whip smart, and i think she never bothered to marry her man, whom she's since parted ways with. she's got it all! presque.

Ok.First in english :Erin,

Ok.
First in english :

Erin, i hope you are second degree with the Segolenist resume : i mean, ok Segolene Royal (Segolene Kingy (i did'nt write Kinky lol) is gorgeous, chic smart, have nice nipples and legs but she's also brave, and resistant, she get authoritie and is also able to listen to people and understand them.

The fact is that in France,our president is elected by every french people aged of more than 18 and registered on electoral lists (it means,i guess, to have one's citizen rights still available). It's quite a huge mass of potential voters.Even there is usually and with time more and more abstentionism, in 2007, where we had for the first time a woman (Segolene Royal) wo get through the first round (for presidential vote there are two rounds)and faced Nicolas Sarkozy, it can be noticed than the level of abstentionism was below the two last presidential elections (only 16% of voters did'nt vote). So this election hit the interest of french people.
At the end, Segolene Royal get 46,94 % / Sarkozy 53,06 % !

For me, it is a terrible thing Sarkozy wins this election. And sometimes i wonder about failure in democratic system : i mean, the power of decision is given to every citizen, but most of them don't have any political culture or interest in and only decides for whom they are going to vote on silly criteria. And one of those criterium is most of the time how nice is the tie's colour or the physical beauty. It doin't deny a sexual and incarnate dimension in politics, but if it was the single aspect, (and it is for many voters) in France we should have elected Madam Royal, just because Mister Sarkozy is really uggly, short with one shoulder higher than the other, full of nervous crispy movement on his face, brief he is uggly ! His competitor is so much more chic and "gorgeous" as said by Erin.
(I just mad a little digression : on the single physical appearance, i mean senator Obama, is quite a handsome man (i think, do you ?))
But the pretty Segolene was won by the uggly Sarko, and even everybody is not making one's decision on the body shape, it's were the sexism comes into the scene : i mean a strong jalousy could be heard in some every day womens speeches, something also cast by media and politics saying Segolene was totally dull but without demonstration, and finally, a great part of voters just prefer Sarko because of long time sexist culture habits, and would automatically make a kind of unconscious (or terribly conscious) joint between male sexual organs and the power's attributes and tools (even if the holder is an horrible freak) ! I'm sure many voters just vote against women empowerment and many voters were women unfortunately, but it is common to see victims be persuded that the oppression system is the best !
I would add that what the more shocked whas the constant lack of support Segolene encounters in her own party : she was the head candidate of her party simply because she was very popular and raise the massive support of the basis, she experience in many political field, she prooves it, but despite many men members, unhappy tosee their place taken, did tough and silly declarations against her, they were her worst intimate ennemies ! Remember that Laurent Fabius, asked, who keep care of children at home when Segolene attends political meetings !!!! It sounds unbelievable but it is !

A huge work of education has to be done.
The fact is that something has to be deconstruct, and reinvented,but as i don't believe it will be quick to implement and to go out of an old phallocentric system, i think we should be , we women, and feminist men, twice smarter : i mean we should use the same weapon of the sexists and IN THE SAME TIME (and it's a power to be able to criss cross in perpetual movement some kind of boundaries) play another game outside those rules we did'nt made, and were didn't made for us : for instance and to futher to the Cage female monster's image, if some men do believe in castration, weshould as Medea be abble to threaten them on the "verge" of their belief, and in the same time trying to elaborate a totaly "brave new world" where those kind of fear can not exist...

We have to be pragmatical : time is not already come, so we have to be like "cameleon" a kind of rolling stone.

I made adream o a time where what ever male or female the presidential candidate would be praised for their abbility and competencies, but this implies for me to also make a kind of copernic revolution, in what whe named skills, because the definition itself can also be under sexist influencies.

[i stop here, if not clear i would precise it later in French ;-))]

Bon c'est pas tout ca, il me reste la vaisselle et le repassage à faire ! ;-)

ahem...

when i say Ségolène Royal is beautiful, i mean she's beautiful. of what does that beauty consist? physical grace, self-possession, courage, intellect, integrity, enlightened political views, humility & i'm sure there are other things.
i don't mind Sarkozy's gueule but i do mind his slavering americanism & what seems like his own brand of christian fundamentalism. he's really bad news for france & judging from poll numbers french people regret having voted for him.
Hillary is complicated. her life with Bill is kinda creepy. it's hard to see her without thinking of him. that's practically unique among politicians. when i see bill i don't think of hillary. it seems in some way like she's not "free".
regardless, the media has been AWFUL to hillary because yes elle est FEMME. but the media is awful about most things...i mean, let's not waste time being SURPRISED.
it's impossible for me to really imagine how tough these candidates have to be to make it through this process.
they said Ségolène was dull? we said the same thing about Gore. maybe "dull" is the new "intelligent."

Oki'm not going to argue

Ok
i'm not going to argue about "beautifull", in fact, the limited interpretation to "physicall" beauty can already lead to a demonstration where sexism spoils incidiously the system (in abstracto of every other consideration).

I read a paper about Sarkozy's Bush (G.W) love : i think it was a republican, but an american politics leader says this laconic sentence : "When a feast takes place, there are always people to came late when it is finished" ;-))

The list of what's going wrong with Sarko could be long, his going to implement the extremist right wings program with illegal immigrants (even with discease, even separating families) : it is a shame for France !

I mean when you vote, at least, you should take a little time to criticism and make you mind : it was before voting french who can't support Sarko anymore now, should have taken the decision either to support Segolen or to avoid voting. I mean, sometimes, when i'm in bad mood, i think if some voters are too silly to vote against the collectivity interest, the only think is to endorse your responsability, just support the pain you apply yoursel(but i want to leave a country where 53% people voted for the contrary of my ideal !)! And when i am more positive, i think these angry energy and regret atmosphere could be canalised to lead actions to resist !

I just hope he will not be reelected for another 5 years mandatory !

Do you think Hillary should have divorced or separate oficially from her husband ?

i have NO IDEA (pas d'idée)

i have NO IDEA (pas d'idée) what Hillary should do! i think she's doing all right for herself. oh yeah. one thing. she desperately needs a FASHION CONSULTANT. i mean she needs to LOCATE HER PERSONAL STYLE. i guess i don't want to believe what i'm looking at IS her personal style. you know, that's just SO UNFAIR of me.
you see how superficial i am. i always get hung up on the beauty delusion. i'm from So Cal.
"When a feast takes place, there are always people to came late when it is finished" translate please

Do you want me to translate

Do you want me to translate :
"When a feast takes place, there are always people to came late when it is finished" into french ?
Here you are :

"Lorsqu'une fête a lieu, il y a toujours des gens pour arriver trop tard quand tout est fini"
C'est métaphorique. Bush est quasi fini et enterré, il a eu son heure de "gloire" (la fête Ita missa est). Sarko est un adorateur de Bush, ce qui est déjà une horreur mais un plus c'est un adorateur à contre temps ! Il le reçoit à diner à l'Elysée aujourd'hui je crois !

Sarko is a Bush lover when it's no time anymore to love this kind of guy even when you're a Republican!

editor

please FedEx her

one of your ties...

ya think?

my editor says tie. i say polka dot?

I voted Segolene

BUT I am against her !
I can't stand anymore all these "bobo" in France who had ran over social fight. Segolene is a good liar too. In fact, she is far from people's reality because she belongs to another world.
I liked the idea of "democratie participative" (making projects with people), I can talk about it in a forum (if you want) because I have been practicing it, and... Politicians (even communists)... hmmm... all bathing in the pool of hypocrisy... They first think about themselves.

Don't worry about Sarkozy : once, he said that he wouldn't be candidate for 2012. He wants to lead a big enterprise.
Haven't you heard about "pantouflage" ?
It's when all students from ENA (National School of High Administration) or other students from a high level school, or some politicians lead public services for a while to practice a little their capacity of leading and make their adress book before being a big manager of a big enterprise. They just earn a plus-value working for the state.
How could things change with that political feodality?

You know, Allegre was right with "mammouths" * but he pointed low civil servant whereas those real mammouths are at the top.

I am so sorry not being anymore optimistic about democracy in France.

* Allegre is an ex-minister (during socialist period) and he said that the state was a "mammouth" because of all these silly civil servant wanting to keep their advantages and he accused teachers not being able to make things change in the ministery of Education. And of course, he didn't change anything as a minister.

bobo accusation are realy

bobo accusation are realy easy, you can say every body is bobo around here. when you put intellectual left wings against low class and working class, it's all benefits to financial power.

And the accusation is specialy unfair about Segolène, she's from a family where womans place belong to be wife, she new that education was the only way to find freedom and she go in school against her father will, she have to work to live while she studying. she put her father in to tryal because he refuse to help her, she receive her mother when she run away from the father. she work hard with no family back up, it's a feminism lecture and it's a proof that free education give a real chance to gain a higher level of life than wat your born on.

what i like with segolene is the people who's around her, from greenpeace, from la ligue.... anyway, it's take too long to get over this all.

we can swich in the forum "french politics" if you like

I feel so castrated when i speake about politic or philosophy in english

let's take our discussion

let's take our discussion here, to the bottom of
my blog

The french OC online

The french OC online republic could be born in the insular space of your blog ;-) Hip Hip Hourra

vas-y alors!

actuellement on est sur le blog de diana. indulge-moi & clique ici, et transportons noussur le mien. si ça te dit. i could use the traffic, franchement.

holly sh*t, we're on Diana's

holly sh*t, we're on Diana's spot ! ?!

(in fact i went on yours, leave a note, but was not so much inspired by a link between Segolene and "la petite reine" (the bike)...A suivre...)

tu me fais rire

mais je vois pas ta réponse sur le Mien merde! si tu ne postes pas je ne peux pas te "répondre"...piges? merci d'avance. i think.
pour l'instant mon truc sur le vélo n'inspire pas grand monde. j'ai le <.

La princesse

your mentioning the Education Ministry reminds me of when Sarko made my Blood Run Cold: he JOKED about the frivolity of having students read La princesse de clèves. my favorite book. such a mysterious book. how can a woman say no to a man? what a concept. until henry james' "washington square" i'm not sure there was a response.
what's bobo? bon chic bon genre?

Bobo and BCBG

BCBG : Bon Chic Bon Genre. Rich bourgeois voting for Sarkozy and co. Definitely and openly conservative people, or liberal... right wing anyway.
Bobo : BOurgeois BOhême (Bohemian Bourgeois). Bobos vote for the social party. They faint interest to social politics and poverty BUT they pratically do the contrary of what their good heart say, working hard to remain their own background (bourgeoisie) in the comfort ("coeur à gauche, portefeuille à droite": heart on the left and wallet on the right).
The powerful ones live in the 6th arrondissement (district) of Paris (Saint-Germain-des-Prés).
For instance, they are responsible for higher (appartments) rents in Paris. They bought folks of poor districts and made the rents growing. So, now, poor people have to leave Paris.

About Sarkozy and "La Princesse de Clèves", I am sure he didn't read it and if you think that he was jocking at a female writer, I agree. Perhaps he was also jocking at precious (affected) writers (but I might overestimate him) thinking about "Les précieuses ridicules" ("Affected ladies") by Molière. Some people think that precious writers were all like in Molière's play (=pretentious and vain).
Thanks a lot for your interest.

précisément la princesse

from Libération mardi 21 novembre 2006
Par Christine Lapostolle écrivain et enseignante.
Monsieur Sarkozy prétend qu'il n'y a aucun intérêt à faire lire la Princesse de Clèves à l'école. Ce sont du moins des propos que lui prête la bande dessinée la Face karchée de Sarkozy : «Meeting de Lyon. 23 février 2006. La princesse de Clèves ! Voilà ce que donne l'Education nationale pour épreuve d'examen ! Etonnez-vous que ça aille si mal. Si c'est ce qu'on enseigne à nos enfants.» ... Quel intérêt y a-t-il à leur faire connaître un tel roman ? A quoi cela servira-il sur le marché du travail ?

l'article continue ici

Thank you very much

I have heard of it but didn't read any articles. So... it's not a sexist point a view but just a stupid one.
Yes indeed, I shoudn't teach litterature, history, geography to my students. No need to think in Sarkozy's world.

deux choses

premierement, I don't want to live on a planet where even the FRENCH don't care about literature!
deuxiemement, it IS sexist because it's so thoroughly not only by a woman (Madame de la Fayette) but from a woman's p.o.v. it's all about just saying NON to The Man.

of course

I was ironical, but when the french president say that (even if he wasn't president yet when he said it), it gives another opportunity to my students not to study (and they all come from low backgrounds). I do my best to interest them to something else but killing a teacher.
And yes, Madame de Lafayette is one of our feminist reference.
Les précieuses (affected ladies, in fact, the "precious" were a writer movement), were very critized : perhaps other female monsters! ("les précieuses ridicules" of Molière is a testimony of machism during this period of french history, he holds up Madame de Scudery to ridicule). Madame de Scudery was leading this movement of writers in which they questioned male superiority.
Other witches... some men belonged to this movement, of course they appear effeminated in Molière's play.

Molière

Molière is a huge hero of mine but yes, he ridicules women who pretend to the male domains of literature and thought. he's not unlike mailer or pinter. he's macho but he's honest and self-aware.
what do you teach?

I love Molière as

I love Molière as well...
And he seems also to be a feminist in some plays... aspecially when he criticizes forced weddings.
I teach french, history and geography in a professionnal highschool (mostly pupils who didn't choose this way and are very bad in french).

je viens de relire

Georges Dandin & L'Ecole des Femmes -- both of them unbelievably great studies in male humiliation by someone who experienced it firsthand. vive Molière!

ouahou!

it takes so little to excite a femme or a francophone!
i've got to revamp my résumé! autrement je te réponderais longuement & doucement...
à plus tard, alors.
merci pour la déluge

comme Monica Wittig a dit

comme Monica Wittig a dit que les lesbiennes n'étaient pas des femmes, je suis sure de ne pas être une "femme", mais c'est bête, elle a rien dit sur les francophones !!! ;-)

MONIQUE WITTIG for PRESIDENTE!!!

we need more monique wittig over here.
i believe she also said, a lesbian who's not reinventing herself is on her way to extinction.
of course i was using the american "femme" or girly girl not the french "femme" aka woman. not that there's not overlap.
à plus...

is there somthing

is there something in the constitution precising if the president(e) has to be alive to be elected ?

ps : you know even in american i don't think i'm a femme....lol

to be president

you're supposed to be alive, native born (unless you're schwarzenegger), & probably not lesbian.

"to be president you're

"to be president you're supposed to be alive"

i like this sentence !

author

show off

show off. just cuz you've got all those ties now.

editor

sweaty, naughty feelings

*whispers* Diana! The butches are speaking French! For fuck's sake, encourage them!

author

Oh Watson!

What was I thinking????

editor

<333

Do you think we can train them to say lewd things in French on command? Like parrots?

they come trained

that's what's great re frenchies. everything they say's lewd by virtue of the lip manipulations required by the language they speak.

maybe it's not the french

maybe it's not the french kiss sensation but the tie that hurts cage : too phallic ;-)

ou comment ne pas se faire mettre en cage ? (amies de la francophonie bonsoir !)

Diana, for me it wasn't the mainstream media

it was progressive media like, Stephanie Miller, Randi Rhodes, Keith Olbermann (borderline)The Daily Kos, Jasmyne Cannick, Arianna Huffington, etc who in their support of Obama crossed the line too many times.

And these same Obama supporters denying that there was any sexism in the coverage was too much. Stephanie Miller in particular, made a joke about it. I don't listen to Stephanie or Randi anymore.

Your friend,
Rusty

+ + + + + + + +
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

Long Time

It sucks. While I am not a supporter of hers now, I voted for her to become Senator and still cannot believe how they treat her in the media. I have never ever heard such vile, degrading remarks about another candidate. I can't even imagine how that effects your psyche hearing this shit day in and day out.

I do not follow racing, but I know Danica Patrick got hit and it knocked her out of a race. She did say it was sexist that she got knocked out of the race by someone. It could be, I don't know I haven't seen it. :-) Whether it is or isn't it, it sucks that that should even be something we have to think about something like that. Of course all the boys just laughed it off.

Just like this one guy said to me.. 'It always amazes me to see girl coders'. Yes.. because women cannot possibly comprehend lines of code. I told my one decent male friend that and he had the same huh? reaction I did. But then he told me the secret (which made me chuckle) 'Women coders are like unicorns.. you hear about them all the time but you never see them in the flesh..'

So I guess the only thing we can do is keep standing up for ourselves and to not let the degrading, sexist remarks fly.

--==--==--
I Should Be Hoping, But I Can't Stop Thinking

Danica

Cyberwoolf,

I heard her talk after race following her win in the Twin Ring. She was clipped there also, after the Twin Ring. I don't know if that is the race you are mentioning. In that race she stated that she was surprised that the driver clipped her, he apparently didn't know the track customs and he had better learn fast. She openly said behavior like that shouldn't be allowed. Though she said it more kindly that I'm doing here. If you ask me, she does take more bull than other drivers, and I'm sure she dealt with sexism moving up the racing ranks. She probably still does deal with it. I saw her do a spread in Sports Illustrated, I felt a sinking feeling in my stomach seeing her in a bikini as if she lost some IQ points during the photo shoot. You wouldn't expect here other racing peering to do stuff like lay on their helmets while in a bikini. I can see where it would be nice to do a bikini spread, she is pretty, but my god what happened. Her photos on danicapatrick.com were much better and they didn't make me feel like she was selling herself short. Maybe I'm just jealous... LOL I mean she gets to race cool cars and she it attractive. I'm just a lowly nerd, and I think Richard Feynman was cool... :) Well, he is...

Nice

Thank you guys for that tidbit I didn't know that :-/ Can you guys live with me for awhile and edumakate me? :-D

Women in computing

Cyberwoolf, the next time some jerk makes a remark about women software coders or women in computing, remind him of Ada Bryon, Countess of Lovelace (1815-1852), who is considered to the a founder of scientific computing. Her notes on Charles Baggage's "Analytical Engine" predicted some of the uses of computing we have today.

FYI: In 1979, The U.S. Department of Defense named a software language "Ada" in her honor.

tilda tilda

yes & tilda swinton plays her in experimental filmmaker lynn hershman-leeson's film, conceiving ada (1997)