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How Do You Know a Dyke Is a Dyke?
July 15, 2008 - 8:47am — Staceyann Chin
When I first came out as a young, fierce dyke, I did fierce dyke things. I wore fierce dyke clothing and wrote fierce dyke poems and said fierce dyke things like, "If men were smarter beings, they would let women rule the world."
I listened to young, fierce dyke music — Ani DiFranco, Tracy Chapman, Indigo Girls and a host of other women who were writing music that featured the guitar and referenced soft loving and hard times. I didn’t even know I was a disciple of the vaginal order when I was steeped in Melissa Etheridge’s Yes I Am. But it clued in other dykes that I was open and ready to play when I swayed and called out to some genderless being, begging for it to come to my window, crawl inside, wait by the light of the moon — if that is not a dyke scenario, I’m not sure what is. Tori Amos and her bleeding songs about Jesus being a girl, or Sarah McLachlan and her softly cloaked references to untraditional love had me wet in the panties; and I did not know why. Many of us did not know why, but we congregated and met and fell into each other and were surprised when we all came out to each other.
I say all that to say that, in the early '90s, it wasn’t so easy to find women who were open about their desire to date women — and certainly even harder in Kingston, Jamaica. But in the frenzy of the unknown journey, there were clues — faint, but clues nonetheless — that told you that you were among like-minded bodies. A silver thumb ring, a very short haircut, a propensity for comfortable, unfashionable shoes — these were things that signaled that cunnilingus was commonplace in this sexual zip code.
Photo by Craig T. Kojima, Star Bulletin.
As I have grown older, I have remained a dyke, but my fierceness is less about what happens to my body on the outside. (In fact, it’s more about what I let someone do to the inside of me, or what I actually do to them all over… but I have to focus… it must be this bloody heat!) Anyway, I still listen to Tori and Sarah and Ani and Tracy, but my perfectly positioned silver thumb rings signify nothing in this era of fashion and free spirits. Dykes have taken to dressing like they are on set at The L Word. In New York City, comfortable shoes are the order of the day and a short haircut is the style sported by Rihanna and a sea of older women with good sense. In short, the fierce dykeness of my youth has become nothing more than fashion.
So, my question to the young, fierce dykes of today is, how the devil do you all know each other in covert spaces? And is there need for covert in these times of open doors and free love and sexuality being fluid — even for straight girls? Since the silver and the hair and the music are not the fashion markers of lesbos of the 21st century, are there other ones that I am too old to be privy to? Do girls with locks, or twists, or in-line skates or purple pumps mean anything? If I weren’t so closed-minded and wanted to approach one of you under 30s, what would I look for? How would I save myself the embarrassment of asking some New Age Christian girl who is just fashionable if she wants to be fisted?
In these hot hours before the evening, when my personal funk is at its height, when I am least likely to go running, when I am dousing my t-shirt with ice-cold water and watching my nipples harden, questions like these come to me. Call it curiosity, call it old age, call it idle, call it I-really-need-to-find-something-interesting-to-write-a-fucking-blog-about, but I really have to know. Is the era of the fierce dykeness over? Have we been mainstreamed by The L Word? Are we not acting like we are no longer oppressed?
Anyway, I have to go get some ice to put in this water that is now as warm as the crevice between my breasts. Hopefully there will be a blog of greater significance and fierce dykeness next week.
I listened to young, fierce dyke music — Ani DiFranco, Tracy Chapman, Indigo Girls and a host of other women who were writing music that featured the guitar and referenced soft loving and hard times. I didn’t even know I was a disciple of the vaginal order when I was steeped in Melissa Etheridge’s Yes I Am. But it clued in other dykes that I was open and ready to play when I swayed and called out to some genderless being, begging for it to come to my window, crawl inside, wait by the light of the moon — if that is not a dyke scenario, I’m not sure what is. Tori Amos and her bleeding songs about Jesus being a girl, or Sarah McLachlan and her softly cloaked references to untraditional love had me wet in the panties; and I did not know why. Many of us did not know why, but we congregated and met and fell into each other and were surprised when we all came out to each other.
I say all that to say that, in the early '90s, it wasn’t so easy to find women who were open about their desire to date women — and certainly even harder in Kingston, Jamaica. But in the frenzy of the unknown journey, there were clues — faint, but clues nonetheless — that told you that you were among like-minded bodies. A silver thumb ring, a very short haircut, a propensity for comfortable, unfashionable shoes — these were things that signaled that cunnilingus was commonplace in this sexual zip code.
Photo by Craig T. Kojima, Star Bulletin.
As I have grown older, I have remained a dyke, but my fierceness is less about what happens to my body on the outside. (In fact, it’s more about what I let someone do to the inside of me, or what I actually do to them all over… but I have to focus… it must be this bloody heat!) Anyway, I still listen to Tori and Sarah and Ani and Tracy, but my perfectly positioned silver thumb rings signify nothing in this era of fashion and free spirits. Dykes have taken to dressing like they are on set at The L Word. In New York City, comfortable shoes are the order of the day and a short haircut is the style sported by Rihanna and a sea of older women with good sense. In short, the fierce dykeness of my youth has become nothing more than fashion.
So, my question to the young, fierce dykes of today is, how the devil do you all know each other in covert spaces? And is there need for covert in these times of open doors and free love and sexuality being fluid — even for straight girls? Since the silver and the hair and the music are not the fashion markers of lesbos of the 21st century, are there other ones that I am too old to be privy to? Do girls with locks, or twists, or in-line skates or purple pumps mean anything? If I weren’t so closed-minded and wanted to approach one of you under 30s, what would I look for? How would I save myself the embarrassment of asking some New Age Christian girl who is just fashionable if she wants to be fisted?
In these hot hours before the evening, when my personal funk is at its height, when I am least likely to go running, when I am dousing my t-shirt with ice-cold water and watching my nipples harden, questions like these come to me. Call it curiosity, call it old age, call it idle, call it I-really-need-to-find-something-interesting-to-write-a-fucking-blog-about, but I really have to know. Is the era of the fierce dykeness over? Have we been mainstreamed by The L Word? Are we not acting like we are no longer oppressed?
Anyway, I have to go get some ice to put in this water that is now as warm as the crevice between my breasts. Hopefully there will be a blog of greater significance and fierce dykeness next week.
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99 Comments
rainbows baby
lol i have some gaydar i can normaly tell but i really dont know where i look like im gay or not im not femme or butch just me i were a lil makeup once and a while and dress up in heels if im going some where nice but im a jeans and t shirt girl i do have long curly hair but i dont know that that means much. but i got a bag not a purse NEVER ever call it that please ill through it out lol and i got rainbow stickers and patches on it and a DYKE PRINCESS pinand the strap i made for it is rainbow along with other non rainbow stuff .. but i noticed that a few girls i wasnt sure about around town that i just wasnt brave enough to talk to have given my longer looks or a blush or glance and looks down or my fave a smile and a long look ... but im pretty much a smile and watch them walk by me and i end up running in to a pole or wall kinda girl . kinda shy i try not to be tho
Gotta start wearing my ring
Gotta start wearing my ring again...with my knee high juicy rainbow socks ...& of course... My l word tank top. When u see me u won't have to ask. & if we shake hands & I rub my index finger in the palm of your hand that means I'm interested or that I'm family. All in favor of the hand shake, say aye!
there you go girl ...
hahaha i love the idea of the hand shake i will still it from you and i will start using it !!!
Im what the call a "lipstick lesbian*
I LOVE HIGH HEELS , SKIRTS, DRESSES, PINK (IN EVERYTHING), I WEAR MAKEUP EVERYDAY, AND YEAH I WALK LIKE MODELING.
Thats why most of the people at work are always asking me "hey why dont you have a boyfriend?" and stuff like that...
SO IM THE TYPE OF DYKE THAT MOST OF THE TIME HAVE TROUBLE TO FIND A GIRL CAUSE NOBODY HITS ON HER, CAUSE SHE LOOK SO DAMN STRAIGHT!!!
so living like that i had to find out a way to know who is a lesbo and also for them to find out that im on their team.
and after spending some time thinking how to increase my sex life xD
i got to the point that i believe that "JUST ONE LOOK AND A SMILE" can tell you everything you need to know to either go for it or stay where you are.
=)
If it quaks like a duck.....
What do you do when you look like I do and guys still hit on you and won't give up even after you come right out n tell um, your friends and employers can't peg you and girls refuse to acknowledge you. I try my damnedest to always give some kind of hint: dress boyish, walk and sit unladylike, including staring right at a girl, making sure we make eye contact and still I get nothing. It's like if you don't have the complete look of a stereotypical dyke you have to go right up to a girl and announce your interest. Is it the boobs? I think it's the boobs...
It is really difficult..
...these days to tell whether someone is batting for the same team as you. Younger generations are seemily all bi-sexual, and all dress ''hetro'' but older generations are becomeing more difficult unless they are stereotypical.
I think you just have to try and read body language, because if a girl is into girls they will be sure enough to let you know as they will be in the same position as you!
no gaydar, just algorithms
Gay or european (or hipster) tends to be the never ending question for me... The biggest indicator I look for is short nails- not a definite that she is, but long nails make it much more likely that she isn't. I think septum piercings might be something like the new thumb ring- there are lots of gay girls who don't, but 90% of the girls I know with one are (self included).
gotta say...
I gotta say, I have slowly but surely toned down my femme-ness. I mean its still there, but I am so sick of the dudes hitting on me, and I want it to be a little more clear which team I play for. That and when I am out with my gf, I want people to know I am not her straight friend. The changes have been subtle: cutting my long hair, neutralizing colors, wearing my torn jeans to the lesbo bar intead of the sun dress, etc. But it makes a difference. And it is a little empowering, not gonna lie. I don't want to be anything I am not, whether that is ultra femme or ultra dyke. But there is nothing wrong with a little change, I have found. In the meantime...my gaydar sucks!
Actually, I have excellent
Actually, I have excellent gaydar. I don't know how I do it. Someone could look as straight as all getup and for some reason, I just KNOW.
But not always. Embarassingly enough, I do go for the "So, have you heard of Tegan and Sara?" line. And hey, it works.
I love Tegan and Sara. YOU love Tegan and Sara.
Lesbians love Tegan and Sara.
What is it to "Look Gay"?
Distant Lover: your dream come true
When I first came out, I kept hearing, "I would have never thought!!! You don't look gay!!!" And my response was simply, "How the fuck do you look gay?!" Now I kno.
I am an aggressive femme, if anyone knows what that is. But, i'm more aggresive than femme, so on a good day, I dress like a dom. This said, I don't have to work too hard to get attention from femmes, but when I dress more femminine, I don't get a holla from a dom or a femme. I live in bmore, and here, if you know one gay person, u know all the ones in the city!!! Honestly! So, all I really have to do is talk to my mother, an older dom in her 30's, and she'll be like, "yea...she used to mess with so and so."
Other than that, I usually pick the ones sporting rainbows. IDK about around he other parts of the world, but in bmore, rainbow is known to be the gay symbol, so we usually identify each other with rainbow peircings, tattoos, bumper sticks, shirts, wristbands, etc.
You lost me at...
your wet ice-cold hardened nipples. What's the rest of your blog about?
:-)
As a 20-something kid dyke, I've been trying in vain to figure this one out myself. Hipsters and the return of menswear-for-women have made my life very difficult over the past few years. Way too many straight girls love the L word more than I do.
It's kind of like Sex and the City, but in Los Angeles, with way more sex, and yeah, they happen to have sex with girls and occasionally each other, which is kind of icky, but if I absolutely had to, I'd let Shane persuade me.
It's really a fucking jungle out there. Straight girls are gayer than ever and worse, many of my generation of lesbots seem to feel no need to go all Birkenstocky in order to declare their sexual preference to the world. Add Lindsay Lohan and the rise of queer to the mix and there you have it: the ultimate headfuck.
Asking feels awkward, as does Tegan and Sara discussion, L word reference drops, and no doubt, your fisting opener. As far as I can tell, it's all about vibes, stares, and 'I like your hairs'. None of which ever work for me, well, almost never. The good news is that being a lesbian is sooooo hot right now that hitting on hip straight girls may just be the ultimate compliment so why not just go crazy and hit on everyone you want to? In my humble opinion, any female specimen sporting either a fedora or a faux hawk is fair game.
good post...
:)
epic'ly said!
ha ha ha - you said it!
seriously l-o-l'd from the 'its really a fucken jungle..." paragraph. so so true - but you will have to explain to me what a fedora or faux hawk is.
When in a gay bar, which is
When in a gay bar, which is open and friendly to the straight friends of gay people also, I find it even tricky there sometimes. I still see girls with the spiky hair, and it's that intangible vibe you get about someone, the gaydar going off I suppose. But in regular day to day just walking around town, everyone might as well be straight to my gaydar. Unless it's pretty obvious, a couple hand in hand, I can't tell. But then, I just dress like the fashion. Jeans and a top. A dress over jeans. Nice skirt and funky tights. My fashion allegiance is just to what I like to wear, on the current trend I guess or a little left field of it. So girls never approach me, and I wonder if that's why. I give out no vibe. And I'm also loathe to approach anyone unless they're a friend of a friend and I can ask a mutual acquaintance first. I went through the fumbles and the embarrassment as a teenager, I don't want to go through it all again. At a club I went to as a teenager we used to joke that people should have little symbols somewhere, indicating what or who they were interested in. But if I were to wear my 'Capulet' badge, how can I expect anyone else to know that means I'm in the mood for some lady love? And even if they did, what if I'd left it on by mistake one day and was in an antisocial foul mood. See, there is no answer, it's just complicated.
So, in conclusion, my musings have found that unless it's punky hair, piercings, tatts and butch fashion, or prior knowledge gleaned from some reconnaissance, it's really difficult to tell. Even in gay clubs.
Well i am very femme... i
Well i am very femme... i love skirts and heels. but i had recently cut my hair to a fohawk and it was amazing how diffrently i was treated. my hair is growing out now and it is impossible to find a girl friend. it doesnt help that mostly all of my friends are straight!!! but its like when we go out even if its to a gay club i dont even get a second look because I'm dancing with all of my obviously straight friends
BTW to the Stacy critics
I'm going to have to say that the woman's blogs are obviously drawing attention & therefore must be something that people want to read. Not every blogger is getting 70+ comments. She writes about what some of us think about. Yes, even sometimes in our more libido oriented minds. But this is Sex Up. Not Censor Up.
The fact is, its kind of hard to get Sexed Up if you keep talking to right wing Christian fundamentalist women dressed as boi dykes complete with baggy pants, cute colorful shirt, with matching jeans & cap. And they happen to be with their "sister" the femmiest woman with the long flowing hair, conservative but sexy shirt, tight jeans & stilletos.
All female rappers are dykes til proven innocent.
Give me a sign!
IDK
IDK Annie DiFranco, or Indigo Girls. I don't wear chucks or a mohawk. In the 90s I didn't wear nor did I know anyone w a thumb ring (small Riverside County town n CA). Yes I'm 30+ too. I'm a R Kelly lovin (music that is), Erykah Badu listening, flip flop & jean wearing Cali woman. I walk down the street & when I choose 2 get diva'd up, I get hit on by men looking for a MILF. Rare experience for a woman to look my way & think gay. I live n LA, but not every woman is comfortable discussing her love of L Word. I'm not looking for anyone so I guess it really doesn't matter. But I think it would be nice to be able to have a conversation with someone where they don't accidentally offend you or vice versa by saying something queer. I want an L Word circle of women who don't all necessarily look like L Word extras. But how am I going to find them without the secret handshake??? I like the nipple cupcakes idea. Might have to try saying that in a crowd. Or maybe a loud "I wonder what Shane would do" to see if anybody takes interest in the convo. IDK Staceyanne. You got me on this one.
honestly,
everyone tells me and my girlfriend that neither of us look like we could even possibly be lesbians. we're both opposites: i rarely brush my hair, love my flats and don't really wear make-up. she blow dries everday, wears make up most of the time and wears heels frequently. i don't really care, we are who we are. no mark necessary.
as for knowing who's a dyke and who's not, well i would just look for that spark, the one where you stare at each other a little too long. embarrassment is always a possibility, but it's a possibility with everything.
good luck with finding anything universal, i guess i gave up on trying.
The Best Way to Know...
It is hard now a days to know who is gay and who isn't. My gay-dar is almost not existent. Unless you are a very butch girl or a very femme guy, there's no way I can tell. But even if you are a very butch girl or a very femme guy, that still doesn't mean you are gay. There are no tell-tale signs to differentiate who is gay and who is straight anymore. The stereotypes of the past do not work in the present day, although it is still sometimes used to figure out who is who. One of the easiest way to tell who is gay would be online, on sites like this one. Going to a gay bar is usually a safe bet also, but you still don't know who is actually a lesbian/bi or just a fag-hag. The best way IS to just ask and hope that she doesn't get offended and bitch-slap your ass... XP... and, of course, that she is interested...
It could be worse
It could be worse you could work in an outdoorsy, or agricultural related field like I do, where most of the women are hardcore (drive pickups, hair always pulled back, tanktops or muscle shirts) and look like they could rip your head off in one swift move, but they aren't fierce dykes, they are just cowgirls (and the muscles are merely because they buck hay every season). It is tough really. I've got a summer crew person, who I wrote a blog about and I quote myself here "Talks like a duck, walks like a duck...apparently not a duck." I have a new theory though, and I might go write about that right now.
I have trouble sussing it out, music is the best way I know how, and even then it hasn't been real effective. Because even when you know that you just know, and it turns out you are wrong (or they just don't "know" yet), it gets frustrating.
I don't know if there's a
I don't know if there's a code for dykes anymore... Sure there are stuff most of us like, like Tegan and Sara, The L Word, Kate Moennig (:P) but even these are not a rule and of course if you wanna ask a girl out you don't ask her "so do you listen to Tegan and Sara?" first.
For me it's hard to recognize a lesbian. I have no gaydar at all... In my town there's only one girl of my age that I know who has the typical dyke look of the 20th century and I'm sure there's not only one dyke around here, so... I myself never thought of cutting my hair short to self-identify better, and even if my style is tomboish most of the time I never thought about it as a fierce reaction to the girly rules. Anyway I know so many straight girls with short hair, who wear dyke-looking clothes like sleeveless shirts and cargo pants... And I think this is the point...
There are no "walls" in the 21st century concerning style and preferences. For example I wear all-star shoes because they're comfortable, but so do 90% of my friends, because they're fashionable. I wear a thumb ring since I was 13 years old and I learned this is a dyke indicator just in 2008! I've seen a girl wearing a rainbow bracelet just because she liked the colour, ignoring the "meaning" we have given to it, I've been asked by girls if I would ever fuck them, but that question was out of curiosity, not desire. I've seen girls kissing their best friend for fun.
And this is hard, because before you ask a girl out you have to pray to the Force (may it be with you btw) for her not to be a conservative christian or an aquaintance of your father who still wants you married with the son of Mr. Jones...
There are the dykish dykes of course but they're not my type anyway, so it makes no difference to me... :(
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And if my present deeds are foolish in thy sight, it may be that a foolish judge arraigns my folly.
limited gaydar
I'm a femme, love high heels. I can only tell if it's a butch. My gaydar is non-existent if it's not glaringly obvious. I can maybe tell by a girl's look, but she maybe admiring something I'm wearing. Sometimes I wish there was a better way to tell--it can feel like you're the only lesbo in a room full of people sometimes. Someone should invent a secret hand gesture.
I don't know if I have the nerve to just go up and ask someone--when I do spot a fellow lesbo, they seem so standoffish that I think twice about starting a conversation. Maybe it's just that NYC attitude.
Keeping you on your toes
Yeah, I was a 90s era dyke, too.
I didn't have the fashion or jewelry to make it known back in the day because I was in the military. It was hard to get a date or noticed outside the bar until I left the military in the 21st century. I would be that girl who would get hit on by the 1 straight guy in the bar, even with my tomboy gear on AND the thumbring.
But you know what? I liked my fashion sense then, & I have embraced it as I've gotten older. I like my style that rivals Bette from the L Word one day, & my baggy pants, fitted ball cap, & beater shirt the next. I like keeping people on their toes, so to speak. If someone isn't sure about my family status, there's no problem with asking me.
So go ahead & ask. But it'll be a bit more obvious now because of my hot girlfriend who I am happily attached to. And the thumbring she just got me.... =)
i'm not always recongnized
I have been called a dyke by my own children ,but i have never labeled myself . i am attracted to dykes , but i have shorn my hair , i have even spiked mine , but i have also had very long flowing hair. i have dressed for comfort , but occasionaly i like to dress in pretty clothes , i draw the line on makeup , only because it's just not me ,i'm a child of the 60's ,but i also have had problems because many say i don't look gay , but i'll tell you those people are usually straight. some say it's gay-dare that attracts us . Well i may be the one that gets passed up because i am in-between , i'm not the girly, pretty young thing anymore and i'm comfortable with who i am , been out most of my life , i just know that i love women , everything about them ,their smell, there touch and i love the way they look at me. so if i don;t look like a dyke or a femm what am i?? i am me. :)
robin
You know. One of my
You know. One of my misconceptions of the term dyke is that it is meaning "butch"...I thought it did when I was younger. But I learned that it wasn't implying butch.
The term is so out, so pungent, so bold - that most think that it's just for butch women.
I think the term Dyke is embraced by the bold enough to say I am. Femme and the butch alike.
I want to share an article with you.
Bisexual Species: Unorthodox Sex in the Animal Kingdom
It's out in the newsstands now. I was reading yesterday and thought it to be thought provoking, in terms of how other animals in the kingdom don't classify...they just fuck.
rovermom :)
Life is a 3D puzzle and everyone has a piece!
NEW! OurChart Photo Assignment and My Blog
all dykes are FIERCE
i can say it would be harder to identify dykes out of a crowd unless we had places to concregate like Pride or the local club. but there is something about ever dyke whether it be the way she walks, wears men deodorant or even sports the short hair that lets fellow vagina lovers everywhere know she is a part of the team..the gay team.
i rock converse and love my long curly locks!
we are all fierce in our own way!
omg your so right
i wear mens deodrant... but i never knew that was a sign!
Bette-'are you talking dirty to me?' *faints*
recently realized!
i just thought about it a while ago. all the gay women i kno use mens deodorant. all the straights wear secret haha
lol
dyke naaahhhhh ur the shizzzz!!
lol
hahha
o your blog did make me laugh! so true! i have yet to meet a feirce dyke. i feel like i have been let down. the only way i tell, is walking into a gaybar on girls night. what would i do without one? die probably. or just be really really embarassed all the time.
and i am gutted to say i do hae pumps and long curls. :( no 'feirce-ness' here!
Bette-'are you talking dirty to me?' *faints*
Just ask...
They say there is no such thing as a dumb question, right? WRONG! LOL! BUT, if you are interested...just ask. You might be surprised and get the answer you were hoping for. And if she isn't, she might consider it b/c YOU'RE the one asking! My point is, ANYTHING is possible but if you don't ask you'll never know...SO instead of would'a, could'a, should'a...just ask!
thumb ring
i had a great moment last night, having a design software app explained to me in a north beach cafe by a blonde babe i'd found on craigs list when i noticed her THUMB RING... thanks for embuing this piece of jewelry with symbolic erotic charge.
gaydar doesn't always work with me
most of the girls i've been attracted to have approached me.
either i look like a dyke or maybe i'm just lucky sometimes.
i have long curly hair, alternate between long and short nails, i wear femme clothes, loooove high heels. i refuse to cut my hair short to get laid.
i don't really know. i can sense it sometimes that a woman is interested in me if i feel something when she looks at me.
but some women have really sexy eyes and mean nothing by it. lol
When a dyke is a dyke
If a woman walks up to you and looks you squarely in the eye and tells you they are a dyke. Then they are a dyke. Does it happen very often? Of course not. Why? Fear.
It does not matter the jewelry, skirt or slacks or shoes. Affordable shoes are not pretty to begin with.
Most women today are androgynous anyways. Women who work buy comfortable clothes. Huge exception, the women who have the occupation that require femme clothes. What jobs are those...where bosses are ruled by it. Those bosses are not always men.
Grace Moon...WTF?????
Midwest
It's mostly regional. I've heard that there are nearly no butches in LA and there are butch straight women here in Wisconsin, so what I say in this response won't apply everywhere - except for short nails! Short nails!
Overall, rainbow garb is a big clue (at least for girls above fifteen). The straight butch women usually wear birkenstocks, crocs, gym shoes, and flimsy flip flops. Dykes usually wear outrageously printed Vans and Docs. Most women here will go hunting and fishing with their dads and brothers - but dykes are usually the ones to go nightcrawler hunting, have their own tackleboxes, keep everything clean, hook the worm themselves, handle the fish, gut the fish, etc. Straight women have daddy do all that.
As far as femmes, I don't know. I'm not part of their crowd.
I don't consider myself
I don't consider myself femme, I'll hook the worm...but I ain't touchin' the fish.
And yes, I clip the barb off.
rovermom :)
Life is a 3D puzzle and everyone has a piece!
NEW! OurChart Photo Assignment and My Blog
streotypes are silly
I think going off the things you mentioned are for the totally stupid. Yes I think some "DYKES" dress as you mentioned but most don't... A lot of the white American college girls, as well as black women who were into womanist politics,and self professed "DYKES" did these things. This look in the early to mid nineties in my opinion was the look a lot of women took on who were not into societies norm of how an "attractive woman" looks. A lot of these women were in the 3rd wave of feminism including the music mentioned hints: Lilith Fair. A lot of my straight female professors in college dressed this way including the popular bell hooks and Rebbecca Walker both were into this look during this time and yes some "DYKE" women dressed this way because I believe it was a part of the movement that was called 3rd wave feminism. But anything in this culture relating to "feminism" or a women doing what she does to please herself and not a males idea of what is "Beautiful woman" is considered "DYKE" behavior.. So this blog as all your others are simplistic and crass, and watching you on other net venues you are deeper and better and much more of a though provoking intellicaul then you come across on your our chart blog, I am glad this blog is not my first introduction to you because if it were I would assume you to be a superficial, sex crazed, jamiacian woman? I think the best way to tell if a woman is a "DYKE" or to tell if a girl / woman likes other girl / women is to talk with her and get to know her and eventually she will say it or she will prove it or just the vibe "gaydar" she gives off... Actually I thought this article was going to be your opinion on how you pick up on gaydar and the signs? But no it was the typical BS.
scare quotes?
how come the scare quotes around "DYKE"? just wondering...
funny
ahahaha...scare quotes. :D
perhaps, she's speaking from *her* experience...
re. her "sexual zip code," like she says.
i don't feel that her point is to make generalizations about the 30+ crowd, she's simply relating *her* experience as a member of the 30+ crowd--in light of her point, which is to solicit opinions from the under 30 crowd about *their* experiences.
i think the spirit of the blog is quite noble. she's reaching out in order to foster greater cross-generational understanding.
we're all evolving. we've entered a realm where fluid behavior is erasing some of the previous barriers that created sexual identity & erecting new ones - for younger crowds, at the very least. these questions need to be asked, imo.
stacey asked - and plenty of young women answered, with a myriad of different opinions. so it seems the blog fulfilled its purpose.
re. the depth of her blogs, in general, i appreciate her pov. her blogs are a product of the environment--this is sex up. i'm sure whenever she feels the urge she'll wax poetic about, say, the origin of lesbian sex. but until then, i'm entertained by pretty much everything she writes.
I am speaking from my exp as
I am speaking from my exp as well, and as a women who is the same age as chin. I was discussing the dressing style from that time period she is speaking about and what it meant to me given what was going on during the early to late 90's (placing a fuller context). As well as saying how one dresses is a superficial cursor in understanding who they are sexually. I will make my views on the blog just as she will write them. My critic on her blog is that it could be better. But also she is intelligent to provoke broad opinions (which is what we as readers bring). Although because someone is writing about sex doesn't mean it has to be in a lower conscious or from a view point that is the typical view.
I recognize the worth of your pov, as a woman of Stacey's gen...
but I'm responding to what you wrote:
"streotypes are silly
I think going off the things you mentioned are for the totally stupid. Yes I think some "DYKES" dress as you mentioned but most don't..."
I'm saying that Stacey seems to be speaking re. *her* experiences of how women she was exposed to dressed. She's *not* generalizing about most dykes--she's *not* perpetuating silly stereotypes. She's simply portraying her point of view, as a point of departure for the question she put forth to those whose experiences seem to differ from hers--because of a (short) generational gap.
I respect your pov, as well. It's just that yours seemed to be based, in part, on one negative reaction to Stacey's blog--rather than the actual blog. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I've noticed how negative energy spreads like an infection, transferring from person to person, on this site sometimes. So I like to speak out when I can, in hopes of helping to transform the neg into positive energy, if possible. It's just my nature.
But, like I said, I respect your pov. I agree that sex can be discussed on multiple levels, but I disagree that Stacey's blogs, which have run the gamut from sex to love to racism to parthenogenesis & beyond, are one-dimensional.
I think that her blogs do cater to a certain baser instinct, at times--she touches the limbic node, oldest part of the brain, related to base drives such as hunger, sex etc., imo. But this is also why her blogs usually rack up the comments. Perhaps, this is by design.
I'm glad you responded
I'm glad you responded. It kinda takes energy to do that.
Anyway to add to your comments, I would like to stress, as Staceyann and others have already, PLEASE READ THE (f'n) CAPTIONS YOU'RE CLICKIN ON! And you'll know why she writes about sex all the time.
And...also read her blog entry "If I ever fall in love again..."
If someone were to assume that Staceann is a "superficial, sex crazed, jamiacian woman," frankly put, they are the ones at fault. They did not do their homework of reading things in context and unfortunately reached a hasty conclusion. Really unfortunate and harmful, because they would then be spreading opinions based on wrong perception.
Especially added "jamaican woman" in the "superficial, sex crazed, jamaican woman" has a racist ring to it. Why is it that when minorities don't behave according to the powerful's standards, we are accused of not representing our people? Do we ever do that to a white people? No.
Even IF somebody, a public figure, decided to be superficial or sex crazed, she should have the space to do that without her whole community being put down. This is especially because it would most likely be the PRODUCT of oppression. And we all need to be mindful of helping each other deal with it, not accusing them of 'not being intellectual'. Or are we supposed to keep our internalized oppression to ourselves, so not to bother other people? That's a real typical BS right there. Not to mention, the act of valuing intellectuals over other kinds being is problematic in the first place.
I don't know if I articulated well enough what I was thinking, but I too sometimes just need to let it out. Thankfully it's writing and not a nagging voice so you can ignore it more easily if you wanted to.
Thanks.
Not sure if you meant you
Not sure if you meant you were glad I replied or if you meant humble pie? either way I will explain a few more things. First I used DYKE in quotes because this is the word she used as title and though out the blog so it draws attention that being her words. Then since it seems to have offended you that I said she was Jamaicain. I have read and seen Stacyann Chin speak many times and have read her blogs, and usually in all those occassions she refers to her Jamiacian ness. It is because of this I used that term because it is obvisous an important identity for her.
Also I am a "Black" American woman so I know otherness. If I am speaking of a white person or a man I will call that out as well if the situation calls for it, because I don't fear whiteness. If you have anything you would like to address to me try it though an e-mail I will answer there too. It seems alot of the comments are responses that are made out of misunderstanding to what I wrote and to my intentions.
it was kind of a response to
it was kind of a response to both of you, but it wasn't directed at either. there are just so many issues and i wanted to elaborate. mostly i wanted to say that if someone mistook staceyann chin for some sex crazed freak, it would not be staceyann's fault. i wasn't saying that you are racist. but if someone who didn't know her well read these blogs and referred to her as a sex-crazed jamaican, that would have a racist tone to it. that's all...
well if you actually
well if you actually understood what i said which is obvious you didn't... I didn't say that is what she was. I said that if I didn't know any of her other work or heard her speak in other venues, and if this blog was my first and only reference to her then I would ASSUME that she was that way. But if someone thinks me saying she is Jamaican is a racist statement that person would be either overly sensitive or doesn't know the meaning of racist. Pointing out something someone (Stacyann Chin) constantly refers to in herself is just pointing it out as her identity. You just missed the context of my comment but that is the nature of posting here. I wont explain this simple post anymore because there is no need to try to help you understand something that is actually posted for Stacy replying to her blog. But if it pleases you comment all you need.
It's all good, V.S.
We get you. You're challenging Chin to go deeper. Got it.
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Speaking of depth, while doing some research earlier, found this tidbit of knowledge from ancient India re. the origin of lesbian sex:
"In the chakra-puja of the left-hand Tantriks ... a special homage is paid to the Yoni, touching it with one's lips and anointing it with sandalwood paste. During the whole proceeding, the participant continues to offer libation from a Yoni-shaped ritual vessel called the kusi.
Both in physical appearance and metaphysically, the Yoni is akin to the lotus flower. Both represent the perfection of beauty and symmetry. The Yoni is likened to the lotus in the early stage of its opening and also in its fully open form. In addition, the lotus remains unaffected by the surface of the water where it rests, and its petals also are not soiled by the mud they spring from. Similarly, the Yoni too remains perpetually pure and is not soiled by any action.
The Yoni or female generative organ is thus venerated for its obvious properties of fertility and growth. In addition it is believed to be the seat of concentrated energy (tejas) which gives rise to all creation. In fact the English word for Yoni, 'vulva,' has a root meaning signifying a revolving or circular motion, and indeed in occultism the vulva is conceived of as a talismanic vortex, a whirling life force that concentrates a fiery essence."
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It makes sense that the core component of lesbian sex would be energetically akin to drinking at the source of all life--the fountain of youth, per se. I see how it is addictive--it's like traveling full circle: returning to that from which you came.
It also makes sense that all of the men-folk who are devoid of this link to divinity, would do anything to get inside of it. Even gay male bottoms have created a sort of bastardized version of the Yoni--a womb that yields not life--for other gay men to enter.
i agree w/ what you posted...
thanks for expending the energy :).
:D
:D
No more comfortable shoes...
It’s not as hidden as it use to be. Even if you’re not out on the scene you can still spot a dyke in the street from her look, attitude and vibe or maybe just the way she looks at you.
I can’t speak for the US but in the UK there is definitely an evolving style to young lesbians and you can spot it a mile away. I think that the hair and the music are definitely still the fashion markers of young scene lesbos in the 21st century, but just very different hair and very different music. The thing that has changed is that young lesbians tend to have the best shoes in the room rather than the “most comfortable”.
A further change is that people play with their look almost on a daily basis now, no one wants to have the same look every day so its pretty common to see a girl super femme one day and the boyish the next.
I think its great that the dyke stereotype is being examined and challenged by shows like the L word. No young dykes I know want to be represented by the traditional butch stereotype. It’s about time that the diversity of dyke culture is celebrated and represented accurately.