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Bette & Tina are so much more but what are they really???

(If you read the whole thing it really is good, I promise)

Ok, I'm a die hard loyal 110% fan of the L Word, and a 1010% Fan of Bette & Tina. I love the Kiss Like so many of us did, as one Ourchart member said "if I muted my TV I'm sure I would have heard every lesbian fan screaming with joy"

Bravo Showtime and producers! Well with all that said lets get down to it. I have recently been captivated by reading the relationship forums here on ourchart, in some part searching for understanding on some serious issues I feel a bit lost on. Also I just LOVE reading EVERYONE's wonderful thoughts on the Bette/Tina/Jodi triangle.

Now the topic I find most interesting here on ourchart is the "Great Bi/Lesbian" debate. Which generally gets more heated than the 08 debates.

I asks everyone to sit with me as "I dissect my Own personal views" of the Bette & Tina romance all from the point of the kiss.

If you did Tivo it, watch it again, or watch the replay tonight on Showtime.
The kiss took place in what I call "3 vital parts". I believe so much can be said in just the expressions of the characters in the scene. Even the music track adds to my summary.

1st: Bette finally putting her guard down and taking Tina back.
Tina's stunned and doesn't want to let go, nor does she want Bette to let go. Totally savoring the moment.

2nd: Bette slowing down and in so many ways just telling her "this" "we are real". Tina breathes it all in knowing 100% where she wants to be FOREVER!

3rd: Bette is fighting herself and is forced to face her true feelings.
Tina stands strong for Bette and lets her know she will take care of her when she is weak. Tina OWNS this stage of the kiss. This part reminds ME so much of Boys on the side- "I got you baby"

Now I'm sure some people will not like me for MY OPINION but honestly it is my thoughts, so here goes.

In season 1 while we truly loved Bette we hated her actions, and the pain on Tina's face when she realized Bette's betrayal, an after they made angry love, she appeared broken at Alice house. If you have the DVD watch it again. Tina has always took good care of Bette whenever she is weak like in the shower that day.

In season 2 Bette fought kicking and screaming back into our good graces and won her lady back mind, body, and soul. Bette allowed Tina to take charge and accepted her terms completely, even as we wanted to scream an ask Tina not to tourture her too much. And we wanted to vanish Helena to a distant land far far away from our couple.

In season 3 we though we were going to lose our mind when Tina does the UNTHINKABLE she not only leaves Bette who worked so hard to get her back but she leaves for a MAN. OMG Oh no not the M word. Oh sorry Bette...

In season 4 we have a new target to blame. I LOVE Marley Matlin 100%. I even like Jodi to a good degree. Do I like her more than Bette & Tina not a chance. However was her character needed, YES 110%. First b/c we needed Bette to heal from the loss of Tina and to a man no less. We needed Bette even thought she is exteranally the strongest character, to be strong inside again.

We needed Tina to really think about what she wanted for her life. Also in some way we needed Tina to suffer and to fight for Bette since she did the actual leaving this past time. We needed Tina to stay the strong character she had become but still soft enough to admit that she was still completely in love with Bette and she *ucked Up. We tested her by making her be "just a friend" WOW she has grown so much as a character it is great.

Now Season 5 is here and we all want our Bette and Tina back no matter what. Jodi is not mean to Bette but WE want our Bette and Tina. Everyone gets so mad at Jodi come on give it a break. Bette can not fully commit to Jodi b/c her heart is with Tina and it always has been that's it.

The truth of the matter is this Bette needs Tina, and Tina needs Bette. THE KEY is they balance each other out. Remember last week when Tina told Jodi good for her for not letting Bette blow her off for a benefit. Tina understands now where she often in standing by Bette and being there for her she did not always stand up for what SHE really wanted or more importantly NEEDED. So Bette not b/c she didn't love Tina totally blew stuff off. Bette was too business consumed and self involved at times, this is true if we admit it or not.

Now I ask this, do we dislike Tina b/c she did in fact leave Bette for a "MAN" and it did hurt Bette a lot. Do we believe that Tina is a 100% Lesbian or do we believe that Tina is just 100% in love with Bette and doesn't want anyone else (man or woman)? Lets remember Tina was originally dating a man when Bette literally stole her heart and they started out. I believe that is season 2 we see this. Tina left Bette b/c she felt incomplete. Hey Bette cheated but Tina did at least come to Bette and tell her she was thinking about being with a man, SHE did not cheat at that point. Bette closed her off and instead of looking at their relationship and herself, or asking Tina more about this Bette shut down.

I believe that it was easy for Tina b/c she felt being with a man was easier b/c it is mostly physical, season 4 "what were we thinking, We were thinking we liked *ucking each other and it was fun" Tina and whatever his name was arguing in the kitchen. LOL

Bette & Tina rule, but it also reminds me of QAF we could not wait for Brian to tell Justin his feelings and it was well worth the wait. I do not think you have to be a lesbian to love a truly beautiful love story.

Also and I know everyone will really dislike this, I really believe Tina is bi but 100% in love with Bette, no one man or woman can mean more to Tina than Bette. Hey this is my feeling. It is based on the fact that I have NEVER met a Lesbian= "a woman who only likes women" ENJOY having sex with a real guy on more than one occasion watch season 3 again, Tina looked like she was definitely enjoying herself, then later the next season she looks at Bette and realizes they were more than sex they were Lovers and Partners.

Season 5 "so what are you doing for sex" "Its not like when we were together I didn't go months without sex" The Bette and Tina romance is heating up and it will be a battle for us to get them back together the season just started Showtime is not going to give them back to us so easy without a fight.

Well folks if anyone read this whole thing what do you think of my synopsis?

5746 Posts

These are all good ones. Of

These are all good ones. Of course I love any scene with Bette and Tina in it.

Just sharin'...

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Hey Portard! How's your two moms, you big gaymo?!

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WONDERFUL!!!

Thanks so much TIB17

You know we always love to see this wonderful couple... Thanks fro sharing with us all :-)
Did you finish the Videos yet :-)

B&T FOREVER
Love & Friendship
STV

Hey good people!

I've been on a little trip with my sister and nephews, so I haven't been in here for a while! Miss reading all that good stuff you guys write! I got time to make some photos when I was there (no internett!) so I thought I would share them with you nice Tibetters!
Take care!

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Lots of love
Miriz

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Bring it on, you fucking dwarf!

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Breathtaking....

MIRIZ

You have taken my breath away. OMG I so love the sunset it is absolutely amazing... I love the beauty that lies in each day... the little things most never stop to just see with their hearts...

Thank you for bringing this beautiful sight to our wonderful days...

Love & FRIENDSHIP
B&T FOREVER
STV

WOW......Such love......Beautiful

LONG LIVE TIBETTE: That is my STORY and I am sticking to it !!

~Feel your intentions in your heart. Feel not what your mind tells you, but what your heart tells you ~
LDAWN

http://www.ourchart.com/blogs/i-sang-with-her-there

wow!

Thank you, Miriz! I think I've gone blind looking at all this beauty! But it was well worth it! ;)

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Bette: "I did not f**k off, I f**ked up. I did not go, I'm still here."

INTENTIONS !!!!

Even in Tibettes Darkest moments they have always maintained the deepest of intentions for each other.

These intentions have created much conflict in their lives because they stopped believing...

Tibettes Intentions have always been :

SEE ME, HEAR ME, WANT ME, LOVE ME ALWAYS........

Now they are on the "other side".....and now they have a chance to be true to these intentions and with that all the mixed messages and missed opportunites will be a thing of the past...this powerful story gives us all pause...and hope that love is everlasting even through its pain and sorrow through that strenght is born.....this is why we are here let us not forget and lets us not let them forget !!!! Tibette Nation rocks !!! Carry this signature with you !!!!
LONG LIVE TIBETTE: That is my STORY and I am sticking to it !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-bp1Q50aRM

~Feel your intentions in your heart. Feel not what your mind tells you, but what your heart tells you ~
LDAWN

http://www.ourchart.com/blogs/i-sang-with-her-there

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wow... I have so many questions???

Ok ladies & LD & ATK :-)

You know I have been working on this very matter for ATK for a few days... SO ATK here goes bear with me I may fumble ok but only b/c I am a bit in the air this really was a BIG CONCEPT/ IDEA an I wanted to give it my real efforts...

But see my Bette heart is well a bit in a flux, so I have a question really??? Do we really look at the true intentions of others??? Is it possible that our dear B&T got lost in just trying to figure out each others intentions and thus did not listen to their hearts. B/c see if thy are both screaming "SEE ME, HEAR ME, WANT ME, LOVE ME ALWAYS..." then LD where is the room for LISTENING? And see once they are both listening is it possible they they can STILL over step... (and keep in mind LD I FULLY AGREE with you... so see how I am a bit torn...)

My real question here I guess is this... is it possible to be TOO empathic??? See I strongly believe that through most of the turmoil that both B&T were not only concerned with their own feelings but also NOT hurting each other more "if they could avoid this". Now with the exception of 505 they did their very best to really reconnect and TRY and listen to each other... B/c see they both KNEW they made mistakes in the past and really just did not want to F*ck it up yet again...

OK so ladies LMAO... and of COURSE LD an ATK... (as this was inspired by our continued discussion of this concept) see this is coming to me all at once... I have a clear focus and see I know it is just a bit rough for me to get it out completely, but what I really think is that they were MIS-reading each others love languages... Yep see been deeply engrossed in a great piece of writing about couples and really connecting by KNOWING and understanding each others LOVE languages...

NOW when I say Love languages I am referring to this basic concept... (of HOW LOVE is spoken and EFFECTIVELY EXPRESSED...)

"The Five Love Languages reveals how different personalities express love in different ways. In fact, there are five specific languages of love:

1. Quality Time
2. Words of Affirmation
3. Gifts
4. Acts of Service
5. Physical Touch

This concept is by Dr. Gary Chapman who has over 30 years experience working with couples over come many different obstacles. So ladies as you can see this is not just one of those Deep Bette gut feelings I am having this is a concept that I did not CREATE at all but see I do believe in it completely as it really is something I have always thought in my mind an recently once I discovered this in my constant PURSUIT for true GROWTH I went OMG... R U KIDDING ME... I have been saying this for years and now some one has COMPLETELY echoed me well actually it may seem I echoed him since well his work has been around longer than I have been studying...

BUT ladies really considering the recent discussion from our dear TIBF and also the continuing discussion of MIXED signals and the added ingredient of TRUE INTENTIONS to the MIX what do we all feel about knowing just basic love languages... and for those who have never read the book or heard the concept... I will try and give a brief example...

OK say you speak english and you meet someone who speaks well say french as a their native language... you both have a small limited knowledge of each others languages but mostly only speak your own language... for your relationship to really work out then you must each give real TIME & EFFORT at understanding a bit more of the others languages for you both to be able to EFFECTIVELY communicate....

SO see this is the same for LOVE... see you may know how you like to be loved an how you best show love but does that mean that your partner automatically picks up on that and KNOWS everything that is when in your heart... See Ladies this is why I often call for the plea fro BOTH of these ladies to "JUST SAY IT AGAIN" to really try and meet each other in the middle and TRUELY RECONNECT... b/c see I fully believe at one point they were on a connected playing field but with all the chaos of Season 1 and then Season 3 well they kinda lost each other an have yet to meet back up and REALLY open up COMPLETELY and see I believe you can also LEARN new languages as time goes on and the more you use them the more comfortable you become at expressing it...

OK so ladies what do you think does any of this make any sense???
So see ATK Like I said it is NOT in any way a disagreement but more like a different way of trying to understand a concept or a IDEA... does that make sense??? Ok well I really hope so cause I tried :-)

Love & FRIENDSHIP ALWAYS
B&T FOREVER
STV

OMG STV another layer

I think we have been discussing both misreading and mistransmission of signals or intentions. I agree with you that understanding a lover is like learning a launguage and it takes hard work to be sure one is properly hearing the other's message. Maybe the questions that they should have asked each other in the elveator are what do you want? what do you need? rather than what are you affraid of? This shows that they were more guided by their fears than by their needs and desires.

I agree with LDAWN that they have always wanted to be heard, seen and wanted by the other. But, as we know, there was not always a balance in the way they saw and heard each other.

The elements of the expressions of love that you outline, do not have weighted values such as quality time really carries a 30% weight while gifts carry a 15% weight. Does each individual place different weights on different elements? I think this can also lead to confusion if I value quality time most and you value acts of service most.

I think that this couple has always communicated most effectively through the physical touch category. They seem to clearly transmit their intentions to the other when they touch, all kinds of touch, not just love making. They seem to run into trouble with words.

It would be really interesting to see if Tina would have said she regretted the kiss or Bette would have said she was in love with Jodi if they had been touching each other at the time. I think the answer is obvious, they would not have been able to lie or hind their feelings if they had been touching, even just touching hands. The most miscommunication between them occurs in season 3 when they touched the least. So if I were to counsel them, I'd say they should start by holding the other's hand when they want to communicate.

I don't think human beings can speak directly from the heard because the communications are chanelled through the brain, and the ego edits the messages in order to protect itself. The more needy and vulnerable one is the more protection that is needed. The ego was triggered for both of them because of all the hurt they had caused each other. So, when Bette's heart says I love her, I want her, I need her, I want her to hear me and see me, the ego says whoa, hold on a minute, she might reject you. You need to just feel her out so you're not left holding the bag if she doesn't feel the same way. The same for Tina, but I also agree that Tina thinks she knows Bette better so she does more supplying of her own answers, instead of waiting for Bette to supply the answers, except for the few occasions where she asked the direct questions.

I know STV that you must place great value in the WORDS of affirmation, this would be the I love yous, and you are the greatest love of my life, etc. So maybe Bette places great weight on this factor as well. But, in season one, Tina placed more value in the quality time than in the words, so again, there is imbalance.

The question really becomes how do we get the heart to speak and the ego to keep quiet? This takes real strength, the ability to face one's biggest fear and take it on unequivocably. Bette started to do this when she said I love you in the elevator. Tina hadn't said it, and Bette was taking a big risk that Tina did not feel the same whay, but she "felt the fear and did it anyway." She dove in for a second time. But she was able to do this because they had been physical. She could feel Tina's "intentions" even though the words were not spoken. Some how their bodies cannot lie to each other.

Yes, the verbal language can be learned, and with hard work, and trust, it can be perfected.

I hope that this makes sense and ties in all that we have been discussing. Its been very interesting and thought provoking, ATK

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WOW... THANK YOU So much!

OMG... OK ATK...

Now you know my mouth dropped as I read this one... LMAO I tried not to scream as you OPENED ME UP for all to see but you know I got a GOOD kick out of it... HEY I will not deny it not one little bit... NOPE :-) "But with that said I do also believe VERY STRONGLY in PHYSICAL TOUCH... and the power it holds..."

LMAO WOW... Words of affirmation... hummm... well see I have a theory... LMAO and see while this is one so close I may just be INSANE here but I will say my thoughts and you let me know if it makes any sense of our dear Bette...

I believe that Bette is very direct when she needs or wants to know something... she does not just leave it up to chance... she is BRAVE and will go at it at all cost sometimes BLINDLY to seek the answers of AFFIRMATION she needs within herself... and see while you have 100% identified this as placing GREAT VALUE in the words of AFFIRMATION I feel that it goes even farther... See I believe just as you said B&T connect WONDERFULLY through physical touch and NOT just intimate touching :-)

I think that Bette asks Tina about the kiss b/c that was what was in her heart but as Tina withdrew then we saw BOTH of their EGOS step in to just protect them from each other see that just all sounds INSANE, BUT in the end ATK I believe you have hit it on the head COMPLETELY and you know I 100% AGREE what a beautiful way of summing up so many things really... this was just excellent "The question really becomes how do we get the heart to speak and the ego to keep quiet? This takes real strength, the ability to face one's biggest fear and take it on unequivocably."

And ATK you know I just absolutely LOVE this part :-) "Bette started to do this when she said I love you in the elevator. Tina hadn't said it, and Bette was taking a big risk that Tina did not feel the same whay, but she "felt the fear and did it anyway." She dove in for a second time. JUSAT AMAZING...

AND in closing I would have loved to see the scene from 505 shot with them ACTUALLY touching in some way that would have been just intense.. BUT dare I say we definitely would have gotten much different answers :-)

B&T FOREVER
Love & Friendship
STV

Heart/Ego Debate

"How do we get the heart to speak and the ego to keep quiet?" This is difficult because we've been fed the idea that thinking is more important than feeling and that feelings are many times a sign of weakness. We've also been led to believe that they're opposites or work against each other. This is an easy way to frame issues but prevents any kind of helpful dialogue and is many times completely untrue. Anyway, back to the question.

A quote by Audre Lorde

"The white fathers told us: I think, therefore I am. The Black mother within each of us -the poet- whispers in our dreams:
I feel, therefore I can be free."

Reading that was a "wow" moment for me and I still don't think I completely understand the "I feel, therefore I can be free." But, it sure gave my feelings, all of them, validity, and this, for me, seems to erase some of the "acting out of fear" and "protecting myself" factors. In L Word terms it's like getting "nipple confidence," which is something that the show and these forums have done for me Anyway, I wanted to share Audre Lorde's quote and it seemed to fit in here somehow, even if I don't apply it to Bette and Tina. Sorry if it's in the wrong place.

Background info: Audre Lorde(1934-1992)
She was, in her own words, "black, lesbian, mother, warrior, poet." She was also legally blind, a writer, active in the civil rights, antiwar, and feminist movements, and had a 14-yuear struggle with breast cancer.

I feel, therefore I can be free

Thanks for this. I'm not sure, but it could mean that when we are hiding or covering our feelings we are under deep stress and are fooling ourselves. When we allow ourselves to feel, we are free of the pretense and can be ourselves?? If you find out exactly what she meant, pls let us know. ATK

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Welcome...

NLANAT

WELCOME and thanks fro joining us fro our NEVER ending B&T discussion... as we try and just sit and enjoy each others company and GREAT INSIGHT into the inner workings of our favorite L Word couple Bette & Tina...

I must say I absolutely love the QUOTE and it does go very well with the concept of a Heart vs Ego debate... and how our inquisitive questions have evolved. Thanks you very much fro sharing with us... and trust me we totally LOVE New ways of looking at things so never fear a new look into or sometimes Heated discussions :-) All positive views are always appreciated!

Love & Friendship
B&T FOREVER
STV

Allthekittens WOW!

You really know how to put it!
I must agree with you, if they were touching, would they be able to lie about regretting the kiss and being in love with Jodi? They are masters in showing physical love, but they do have to learn the other way as well, with words, telling eachother what they need and want. If two people want to be together, they have to know how to talk. Tell eachother if something is wrong.

I'm not sure who was the best to talk about things, but I do remember Tina telling Bette that she didn't get the "I'm so proud to be with you" feeling that she had gotten before. It was when they were expecting the first baby and Tina ordered the birthing tank without discussing it with Bette first. But Bette didn't respond to that at all. Tina said that she was just focusing on her self and the baby, and was trying not to get scared about it. That was the end of that conversation. They have had a lot of trouble with communication. I hope it gets better.

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Bring it on, you fucking dwarf!

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Thanks Miriz

Yea, the frustration of the lack of communication. We had a discussion here not too long ago about the silent moments, and the one you mention is one of my pet peve unrealistic non-responsive moments. Hoping for some discussions in season 6 with crossed-fingers. ATK

ATK

Love it ATK absolutely love it

and very valid points. some of my favs:

"I think that this couple has always communicated most effectively through the physical touch category. They seem to clearly transmit their intentions to the other when they touch, all kinds of touch, not just love making. They seem to run into trouble with words. "
So the question is how much does tactile communication affect intention?
"I don't think human beings can speak directly from the heard because the communications are chanelled through the brain, and the ego edits the messages in order to protect itself. The more needy and vulnerable one is the more protection that is needed. The ego was triggered for both of them because of all the hurt they had caused each other. So, when Bette's heart says I love her, I want her, I need her, I want her to hear me and see me, the ego says whoa, hold on a minute, she might reject you."
"The question really becomes how do we get the heart to speak and the ego to keep quiet? This takes real strength, the ability to face one's biggest fear and take it on unequivocably"

So THEN.......what is blocking intention ????

I love it....ATK and STV....we are really onto something here....you see there are so many components to effective communication between partners suddenly the intellecutal issues that separate them is unimportant what becomes evident and important is the core values or feelings of the indvidual. when one thinks in this fashion you cannot help to understand better your motivation and problem solving becomes a more effective remedy...I have more but have some work to do today...but I will be back....Thanks Sisters.......

LONG LIVE TIBETTE: That is my STORY and I am sticking to it !

~Feel your intentions in your heart. Feel not what your mind tells you, but what your heart tells you ~
LDAWN

http://www.ourchart.com/blogs/i-sang-with-her-there

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AMAZING...

My dear sister... LD

I must say ATK came out swinging and wow did she ever hit a home run... I would have to say and echo here that what was in the way was that of EGOS and JUST PURE FEAR... and see that means they were indeed being lead by something other than their hearts...

BUT see the real question is not what they were being let by b/c we ALL know it was not their hearts the question is HOW do we get them to NOT be afraid to FOLLOW their hearts... I believe ATK got this one as well... When she says she would have them sit and ACTUALLY hold hands or PHYSICALLY TOUCH when they have a real serious ISSUE and need to come CLEAN with each other and break down these barriers they have around themselves...

B/c see as much as all the other factors influence this couple the one thing that remains is they STILL need to be able to EFFECTIVELY COMMUNICATE in a healthy Way as MIRIZ has wonderfully pointed out above... ABSOLUTELY AMAZING...

GOSH you know I just love it... AND this definitely keeps me on my TOES :-) AND I see we are again back and "CORE VALUES" Just wonderful .... LMAO :-)

Love & Friendship & Sisterhood
B&T FOREVER
STV

see my post below

LONG LIVE TIBETTE: That is my STORY and I am sticking to it !!

~Feel your intentions in your heart. Feel not what your mind tells you, but what your heart tells you ~
LDAWN

http://www.ourchart.com/blogs/i-sang-with-her-there

wow, this is getting like the telephone sex blog!

I'm putting my thinking cap on about the tactile affect on intention???? I'll wait for your follow up post. Thanks LDAWN

ATK

I just reread STV' post and ATK's post and after thinking a good

part of today and yesterday...this is my humble opinion on effective communication and the intention through touch and finally what is blocking intention.
First I want to reiterate what I feel intention is: I FEEL that it is a core value or beleive in someone tied to a desire and has the ability to self actualize itself into ones life. Now I firmly believe intention cannot be fabricated or rationalized or intellectualized because its innate quality is of one of intuition, its fabrication results in mixed messages, it may or may not objective but it is definately subjective.
Now STv I do beleive in the language of partners as you and I also think that one can have too much empathy and I also feel that often times we pay so much attention to our ouwn needs that we stop listening to the other. I agree with all of this however I see this as another layer as ATK intimated too. I feel that even lauguage as its syntax has to be processed by the brain still comes for the brain and is subject to rationalization, intellecutalization therefore gets lost in the intuitive sense. Blocking intention !
Before we had grey matter to our brains we focused on the senses..Sense of smell, sense of taste, sense of touch. Those receptors in the brainstem shot messages directly to the limbic system....and the human species then reacted out of intuition in their environment for protection, for food, and for sex. As man developed grey matter became more predominate in the brain...there you have it process...Now we begin to have the ability to smell something, identify it as danger and FEEL FEAR !!!!!
OK now that we have just gone through a brief lesson on the history of man let me get back to intention !!!!
IF a person beleives they are a success then they do everything in their power to create the goals of success, their core values dictate their behavior. Our experience in life creates an environment that allows us to follow those core values or deepest desire or move away from them thus sabotaging reaching those goals. If the experience created fear and doubt this interferes with the intention of self so now the indivdual is not listening to intention but rather..fear...Brain. A mixed message not only felt by self..IE frustration, but by others confusion.
As a body worker I use my hands to intuitvely read someones body so that I may assist in some form of healing. It is through the intention of compassion that quides me along that path.
I also think that because of the sense of touch is one of our most innate senses, like smell (which is why aromas can illicit such good and bad responses)it bypasses intellectual need because the limbic system has its own way of interpreting touch through intuition(something felt by the body)
So to bring all of this back to Bette and Tina....Touch would definately be much easier to respond to becausee you do not need the brain....to interpret all you have to do is feel. So by this sheer definition....it is a heart function, which we already know it is a true response not guided by fear but guided by intention.
Bette and Tina's problem was not that they were not listening to each other...they were not listening to their own intention. Their each own truest desire...if they had paid attention to their own intention they would have known by energy without mixed messages what the other felt.
So they make love...and connect then they go their own way, life continues on...the brain takes hold and self doubt sets in and there you have it, the viscious cycle begins again.
So then the question is asked how to you allow the heart to feel without the ego getting involved...how do you quiet the brain ????
I feel it is believing in your own power. when I am feeling my own power (note that I said that when I am feeling my own Power because we all loose sight of that) my energy is the highest people will be attracted to me, I will feel compassion and my messages are not mixed.
Bette and Tina through touch finally see what their intentions were as they spoke of that in the elevator. that is why I have felt that the only way they could get together was through an affair because the power of touch allowed them to see inside of themselves and realize without brain rationalization that they wanted to be seen, heard, wanted and loved by each other. Finally their intentions are revealed to themselves and then to each other. I am not sure that they could have gotten to that point any other way because the brain was locked in fear therefore in protection. Unfortunately we live in a world were having a good rationalization a day gets you through life but oh how beautiful life would be if we could trust ourselves to live life the way it was meant to be ....with our hearts.........

LONG LIVE TIBETTE: That is my STORY and I am sticking to it !!

~Feel your intentions in your heart. Feel not what your mind tells you, but what your heart tells you ~
LDAWN

http://www.ourchart.com/blogs/i-sang-with-her-there

Touch and instinct, a great combination

I agree that they each stopped being in touch with their own intentions after they started the intellectual process. Also, if they had truely accepted their own intention to have the other totally, then they would have instinctually realized the other felt the same way. But, (you can't ignor the but!) sometimes there are dueling instincts. I think Bette did know her own intentions in season two, and Tina knew Bette's intentions, but her own, additional instinct was to be protective--not of the ego but of her heart. Trust is also instinctual. So while she knew Bette loved her, and that she loved Bette, instinct told her to hot trust Bette yet. Tina wanted to trust, especially after the touching in the brief encounter, but it was too soon.

We as humans have dulled our instincts in favor of intellect, but sometimes we need the intellect. Animals are triggered to fight or flight by approaching cars. The problem is that when the flee, they are often killed by the car. The intellect would tell us that we can avoid the fight or flight by just waiting for the car to pass. So, I don't think we humans can be totally devoid of intellect in this modern world that we have created. Even in love, as old a concept as it it, it is much more complex these days. We are beyond hunting and gattering; ambition, leisure, possessions, decisions regarding families, and all the wonderful compleities of modern relationships reguire more than instinct. I think we need to learn to have our intellect more closely aligned with our intentions and instincts. It is great to know in my heart that you love me, but dang, I also want to hear it and I want you to show me. We also need to balance our life's wishes, hopes, and desires, even when we are in love. This means we must communicate, we must truely listen, hear and understand each other. I agree that the place to start is with ourselves. We often think it is easy to know others' intentions but have a harder time figuring out our own. We also sometimes spend more analyzing others, rather than ourselves. I think Bette and Tina do this alot, trying more to figure out what the other wants rather thatn expressing what each wants. I think that the touching grounds them, and puts them more in touch with their own desires. As you said, touch is a primal sense and can't be faked.

I think I may have gotten lost in this post, but, I guess what I'm saying is I agree we need to touch, be in touch with our instincts, but also translate these instincts into verbal communication, and even intellectualize to an extent. ATK

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LMAO... I LOVE IT.... PRICELESS!

ATK :-)

Way too wonderful... You never lose me... LMAO... I just sit back and think humm is this her Tina side... LMAO or her Bette side... LMAO BUT I never get lost it is just way too much fun... GOSH and this just made me smile and that is really wonderful :-)

Thanks SO MUCH ATK for helping me look Deep inside this wonderful couple and also just the true intentions of so many things :-) JUST wonderful never a dull moment

Love & Friendship ALWAYS~
B&T FOREVER
STV

Thanks for creating such a respectful

and attack free zone where real discussion can take place. I'm glad you smiled, you have a great smile! I see you removed your smile from your avatar today, I hope it doesn't mean you misplaced that smile for a while?? If so, hang in it will return to you soon. Respect and appreciation, ATK

Touche'.....Point counter point

ATK....I really agree...I absolutely think that having a balance in all our senses and abilities is a thing of today. As evolution points out clearly we are in a different day which requires the use of differnt skills...gray matter and all.
My point in all of this is this....we have stopped trusting who we are, we have stopped trusting what we want in our lives. All the information is stored within ourselves and yes sometimes you have to use your brain to discern what is good for you and what is not. In life it always comes down to the managability of your life. If anything that we do makes our lives more unmanagable...then it needs to be explored. the question then becomes....our we being true to ourselves.

You see the over analyzing, paying attention to others more than self I think comes from the place of not taking responsibilites for self. we live in a society....with alot of wounded birds...Everyone has a story and a hurt that has taught us not to trust ourselves any longer. My message in my post if I had to choose a few words to explain is this:
Trust in yourself, believe that the universe wants to support your deepest intentions.
I do not think your post got lost, it was right on the money and ofcourse I knew you would come back with a whooper of a response.

Do you know what I am happy about....we stopped looking at Tina and Bette and their behaviors towards each other, creating a 'WE and THEY" and looked deeper and truly saw inside the ego's of these two women, not unlike our own. Life is a dance ATK....as we dance with each other we create the music.....

LONG LIVE TIBETTE: That is my STORY and I am sticking to it !!

~Feel your intentions in your heart. Feel not what your mind tells you, but what your heart tells you ~
LDAWN

http://www.ourchart.com/blogs/i-sang-with-her-there

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AWE... LD... All SMILES :-)

Too Priceless...

So now we are dancing... LMAO way too funny but I FULLY AGREE... only one problem... I so can not dance... LMAO :-) so does that mean I have to sit on the bench or just find a dance partner who can teach me some cool moves... LMAO way too funny!

My sister I must say... I 100% loved this part... "we stopped looking at Tina and Bette and their behaviors towards each other, creating a 'WE and THEY" and looked deeper and truly saw inside the ego's of these two women, not unlike our own" and of course you know I FULLY AGREE :-)

Honestly I was really focusing on the essence of B&T but some how I keep running into STV and my alter ego... LMAO yeah and ESPECIALLY after ATK pulled me out on the floor for a PERSONAL dance with my NEED for as she WONDERFULLY said "WORDS of affirmation, this would be the I love yous, and you are the greatest love of my life, etc."

OMG... LMAO wow that one just made me go OMG it was truly PRICELESS she got me pretty good on that one see what happens when she come at you with the full force of her TINA power :-) Just makes my Bette strength do a double take... LMAO :-)

Wow I love this couple and love discussing it with us all here it just makes my heart feel joy in sharing :-) Thanks so much and LD we are definitely all SOUL MATES :-)

Love & Friendship ALWAYS~
B&T FOREVER
STV

My vote if it counts....

Find a dance partner who can teach you some cool moves..I have made a practice in my life for some time now....Always connect with people who know more than you, have more experience than you and definately who can show you some cool dance moves...That will always keep you challenged and aware !!!!!!

LONG LIVE TIBETTE: That is my STORY and I am sticking to it !!

~Feel your intentions in your heart. Feel not what your mind tells you, but what your heart tells you ~
LDAWN

http://www.ourchart.com/blogs/i-sang-with-her-there

Full agreement

I think we have come full circle and are in complete agreement! How refreshing it has been. Ya know, I recently read a book by a motivational writer, of course I can neither remember the title nor the author (dang estrogen deficiency!) anyway, he did an experiment when speaking to a high school class and asked the kids what they wanted in life, what was important to them. At least 75% could not answer the question. We are not in touch with our real desires. His number one exercise is to get in touch with the self, with our own true values and decide what we really want. I guess it is one of the biggest ailments of modern life. But, its never too late, and we keep on trying. Thanks for the wonderful exchange in our tension free home. Your friend ATK

ATK

ATK stay aware from the estrogen....nothing but cancer problems

The sloution is progesterone.....LOL...seriously though....

LMAO.....oh what us women have to go through just to remember....

what were we talking about ????oh yeah TIBETTE !!!!

LONG LIVE TIBETTE: That is my STORY and I am sticking to it !!

~Feel your intentions in your heart. Feel not what your mind tells you, but what your heart tells you ~
LDAWN

http://www.ourchart.com/blogs/i-sang-with-her-there

I love it!

I also believe in the power of intention and following your intuition. I have always found that when I listen to my intuition and do not second guess it, I'm never lead down the wrong path. I find it fascinating that you do that for your work LD!

To add to your point about quieting the brain so we can feel what is happening, I find it helpful to take a deep breath and simply let everything else go...

Totally agree to what you said about touch ATK! Something as simple as a hug can facilitate the necessary transference of energy. If I'm having a bad day, I come home and pet one of my four legged friends and end up feeling so much better. :)

There are so many moments when Tina and Bette could have benefited from hugging each other. One example of a positive outcome after they hugged was in S3 after Shane's bachelorette party. When they hugged in the corridor (outside their rooms) of the hotel, Bette immediately called JW and asked her to cancel her petition for sole custody of Angie. I'm certain all the good moments they shared that day boded well in her decision, but I believe the hug sealed the deal.

Rock on ladies!! :)

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"If you tremble indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine." - Che Guevara

absolutely and as ATK stated that they touch less in S3

which was the most difficult season....and yes after they hugged Bette knew...her brain stopped blocking....but then ofcurse we all know what happened...they shut down.

LONG LIVE TIBETTE: That is my STORY and I am sticking to it !!

~Feel your intentions in your heart. Feel not what your mind tells you, but what your heart tells you ~
LDAWN

http://www.ourchart.com/blogs/i-sang-with-her-there

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OMG.... JUST WONDERFUL!

WOW my dear sister... what can I say other than that was just amazing...

You really had me there for a minute I had to actually stop and go back to the beginning and read it again... LMAO what can I say... No challenge is too great but LD I will say you definitely had me pull my thinking cap out on this one... hats off A GREAT in-depth look an I loved how you brought it all back around...

HERE my fav part... "Bette and Tina's problem was not that they were not listening to each other...they were not listening to their own intention. Their each own truest desire...if they had paid attention to their own intention they would have known by energy without mixed messages what the other felt." and yep another one of my fav quotes is definitely called for again as we discuss this wonderful couple... "To thy own self be true" Yep what better sums this all up than that.

I must say LD I do enjoy having my brian set into over drive it just gives a feeling of fulfillment that is kinda surreal :-) OK NOW I have one point on the Empathy...

I just feel that at times we had this couple as it happens in LIFE where one or the other was so consumed with the well being of the other that they just tipped toed around and TRIED not to actually speak their TRUE INTENTIONS at times... I can definitely see that happening with TINA as so many have pointed out she was in fact willing to allow Bette to be happy with JODI b/c she felt she HAD no right to interfere...

And see maybe it is my Bette heart that said WTF that is insane... There is always room for TINA in Bette's heart ALWAYS so she should never feel like a bother or like she has no chance... Bette never losses her need & desire for Tina.

AND feel that these two as we have discussed needed to just STOP and listen to their own hearts and really follow them. B/c I know for a fact their were TIMES Bette stayed away solely b/c she feared TINA really did not want her any more and had moved on...

GOSH what are we to do with these ladies... LMAO :-) they sure are a complex pair... an I just love them as they are...

Thanks so much LD for this wonderful piece :-)

Love & Friendship & Sisterhood
B&T FOREVER
STV

one more thing STV

as I just reread your post I truly believe that Bette would have never let Tina Go if she had not felt that Tina did in fact move on. Even her holding onto to Jodi was part of that fear as Bette still was not sure what tina wanted and it took her a while to trust her feeling enough to say..."What the F***I am going in"
See becasue that is what it took Bette just jumping out of her fear once she does that...guess what all that she wants deep inside of her is in front of her. and that is where this couple went wrong.....Bette should have never went into a relationship with Jody from the begining she knew it was not right it was not meeting her core values but she wanted to move on becasue she thought tina did....you see...she just should have listened to her core values on what she needed for herself. How often in life do we do this...intellectualize what we think we should have instead of just believing in what it is we want.

LONG LIVE TIBETTE: That is my STORY and I am sticking to it !!

~Feel your intentions in your heart. Feel not what your mind tells you, but what your heart tells you ~
LDAWN

http://www.ourchart.com/blogs/i-sang-with-her-there

thank you STV and I am honored that I had you pull on

your thinking cap..I take that as a compliments

I 100% agree with the Empathy of Bette and Tina toward each other....I think on more than one occassion we see our couple stuck in their empathy of each other and unable to express their truest desires.
OK so now all we have to do is hear from ATK, it is likely she will throw something in the mix, you know how she is...but I love it and I love being able to share all of my thoughts with such thoughtful women......

LONG LIVE TIBETTE: That is my STORY and I am sticking to it !!

~Feel your intentions in your heart. Feel not what your mind tells you, but what your heart tells you ~
LDAWN

http://www.ourchart.com/blogs/i-sang-with-her-there

I love it and I need a bit of time to swallow and process

but I already know for sure I can tie this into what I have been saying and bring it all to a wonderful tibette head....LOL
I love this....
LONG LIVE TIBETTE: That is my STORY and I am sticking to it !!

~Feel your intentions in your heart. Feel not what your mind tells you, but what your heart tells you ~
LDAWN

http://www.ourchart.com/blogs/i-sang-with-her-there

Wow!

I love the post below that STV posted! That is amazing work! Which one of the Tina's did it???? I haven't seen it before!!

And, I thought I would share some of my work ;) I used this today for my birthday countdown ...

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Hey Portard! How's your two moms, you big gaymo?!

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THANKS Luv...

Sometimes it is just good for my Bette heart to see something beautiful...

OK So this one of course I completely stole from one of our dear Tina's But I must say it sure does make things look so much brighter :-) especially through the rain...

Ladies I hope you all enjoy this great piece... IN THE MIND OF BETTE :-)

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LOVE & FRIENDSHIP ALWAYS
B&T FOREVER
STV

Wow!

This is fabulous!

*** ***
"If you tremble indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine." - Che Guevara

I love this work it is extrodinary.........Great Title too!!!

IN THE MIND OF BETTE.....
My favorite place to be !!!!!!!!!!

LONG LIVE TIBETTE: That is my STORY and I am sticking to it !!

~Feel your intentions in your heart. Feel not what your mind tells you, but what your heart tells you ~
LDAWN

http://www.ourchart.com/blo