Why isn't anyone addressing the role of economic globalization, the World Bank, the IMF, and the WTO? Why aren't we talking about how multinational corporations are becoming more important than any government body? Why don't people realize that this corporate power structure trumps national sovreignty all over the world? That's what all these Bush and neocon policies are leading up to... maximize privatization, dismantle government and social welfare programs, dismantle economic regulation.
Soon, I suspect, the only feature that will be left to distinguish national powers will be their military force...
No one even wants to admit that we are owned by the corporations and will all soon become serfs. Maybe we allready are and are to busy watching, MTV, the NFL, Prince Obama and all the other stuff devised to keep us from paying attention. Shame on us it works....
I think going so far as to imply that we will return to a feudal system is ...well, going a little too far. But I get what you mean. Surfs, peons, pleblians. What's really happening is just the increasingly wide gap between the rich and the poor getting wider. With more people on the poor side.
Honestly though, despite our politics and housing crisis and corrupt government and dependence on earth-burning fossil fuels, we still have it better than other countries. For a good look at the influence of global corporate power, read The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein.
and refuse to accept her defeat would have you believe that Hillary supports or would allow the sleezy behind the scenes mechanizations designed to put her on the ballot.
I don't believe for a minute that she would have anything to do with that kind of back room crap. She is too honorable. Do her supporters have any idea how low and reprehensible your arguments make your candidate look?
I suspect most of the "take it to the convention" and "write in Hillary" sites are actually run by Repugnicans.
If Hillary is behind it or condones it that makes her the immoral slickster her opponents have accused her of being for years.
Your friend,
Rusty
=======
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
Yeah, Rovermom, and she proved how tenacious and strong she can be by sticking to her health care ideals all these years and the tons of work she's done on behalf of the 911 first responders.
"I suspect most of the "take it to the convention" and "write in Hillary" sites are actually run by Repugnicans."
Nope, not true at all. But that is what the bots/sections of mass media want people to believe so the lies keep getting put out there. And of course Hill has nothing to do with PUMA, just more slander, no proof whatsoever.
Please kill off 1/2 of TiBette next season. I have several suggestions. Here's my first:
Tina (who is no doubt a Hillary-hack from way back) cannot get over the fact that Bette refuses to write in Hillary on the ballot in November. She gets drunk and dies in a horrible car accident. Alternate ending, she just ends up disfigured and Obama visits her in the hospital. In the meantime, Bette leaves her for a hot young beer heiress who's filthy rich.
I can't decide if the kid should be in the car or not. Maybe in the car, but not strapped in because Tina is at heart a really bad mother.
Your friend,
Rusty
TyBalter '08
=======
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
I'm editing this comment because I didn't understand the context of your "black humor"/bigot comment. MinnieZlata was apparently very upset about being accused of racism and I hadn't read your exchange with her before I replied to you. I stand neutral in this argument.
I don't think it's fair to call someone a racist for not wanting to support Obama. I respect everyone's opinion on here and no one should be attacked personally for their views.
Oh, wait; nevermind. That's what Grumpy McBush called the beer heiress that lifted him out of poverty. The one he dumped his wheelchair-ridden wife for.
called each other cunts?? Also, does that name calling negate the very wonderful thing he did by adopting his daughter, Bridget, probably saving her life, taking care of her, loving her for years?
Do you know anything about adopting a child? Do you know anything about how much that means to the children, the families, the friends, the parents??
You smashed Hillary repeatedly because of her vote on the Iraq war, and now you endlessly retort with McCain calling his wife a cunt.
I wonder if anyone is ever allowed a mistake (or two) in your world...
Displays of humanity are never meaningless and deserve mention.
Yes, he adopted a child, but this is also the man who thinks children are better off in the foster system than having same-sex parents. Because she, like every child deserved a family (what child doesn't). Yet he divorced later, leaving that same child one from a broken home.
Of course this certainly is not a unique situation, and I personally do not have a problem with it (life is too short to live with an asshole) but the hypocripsy of it all make me sick.
I'm not trying to take away from the fact that he has done some noble things in his life; but thinking a child is better off in our broken systems rather than w/ a stable, same-sex couple is just bat-shit crazy.
...and it will be up to us to convince him – or convince those responsible for passing legislation – that same sex adoption should be allowed. But again, does his opinion negate the good he has done? Actions speak louder than words, just words...
We don't got no stinking apathy. At least not on the Democratic side, anyway.
We do have millions of new registered voters thanks to 2 dynamic, qualified candidates going for the nomination. We have a shot at a filibuster-proof 60 vote majority in the Senate; we have a candidate going after states that haven't voted Democratic since the 60s. Even if he doesn't win those states, there's a pretty good chance his coat tails are going to help with some of the state houses.
On OC, we seem to be top heavy with anti-Obama PUMAs right now and it's important to remember that they are a tiny (if noisy) part of the voting public. Most Hillary supporters are following Hillary in supporting Obama.
Your friend,
Rusty
=======
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
"Partnership and cooperation among nations is not a choice. It is the only way, the one way, to protect our common security and advance our common humanity."
"Walls cannot stand"
"Walls can be torn down"
Do you think we'll get this speech here - a speech to "tear down our walls?"
Senator Obama started his speech using the "wall" of Berlin as a literal reference and moved through his speech to have it mean all "walls" of commonality and diveristy among peoples of the world. Because he did this, I will also.
European nations have been tearing down their walls of religiously induced homosexual discrimination since 1762. Of course, the fight for full national rights for European homosexuals are of a more modern nature, as are ours. But, the difference here is that the changes made in Europe are on the national level - not relegated to any state or lower legal plane. European countries are recognizing the rights of their gay citizens and making changes. They are truly tearing down their "walls."
When are our politicians going to stop picking and choosing "verses" of political legality to live by? When are they going to live by the "entire book?"
Count me in - Kate is as close to politics as I ever get; and she sure does make ya laugh! (not that politics don't make you laugh (cry?) sometimes too)
I do admit to being nowhere as informed as your are. I appreciate your input to this board. I wish there were some McCain supporters on this board just to get the info.
I'm am having a really hard time getting on board for Obama. But; don't plan to vote for McCain. I'm an independent and was a dedicated Hillary supporter. I thought I would be able to move from Hillary to Obama without much bother. It's just not working.
I'm still waiting for Obama to say SOMETHING!! He is great with scripted speaches but; if interviewed without a script I find him painful to watch and listen. I constantly get the feeling that he doesn't really have a stance he is willing to stick to. I get the feeling he's being handled but; by whom???? That's whats got me worried.
Then there's McCain I tried to watch him on C-SPAN the other day. I try to catch as much C-SPAN as I can because I just can't stand the talking heads. Anyway McCain was in a town meeting or some such set up and it was painful also to be kind.
He didn't seem to be able to complete a sentence he was all over the place and didn't seem to be able to make much of a point about anything.
So here I am watching one man who can't seem to find his butt with both hands and another who is to old, way past his prime and certainly no friend of women, not that Obama is much better.
I just keep saying 300 million people in this country and this is the best we can do????
We need to get rid of the strangle hold of the 2 party system. These 2 are just a recipe for more of the same. (IMHO) We as citizens need to clean house (Congress and Senate).
I don't know what to do. I can't vote for McCain, I don't like Obama but; 4 more years of these crazy people scares me to death.
So hasn’t it all worked out well for Rich Corporate America and the Military complex and we can keep picking up the tab.
Watching this election nothing has changed once again we the people have no real choice. But; we have no one to blame but; ourselves.
I think it's a bit more complicated than blaming the two-party system. Many democracies abroad feature primarily two-party systems, with some minor third-party activity. When I talk to foreign friends, however, about American politics, the one thing they all mention is how the individual is over-emphasized in our political arena. In Australia, or England, for instance, the focus is on electing a GOVERNMENT, not a singular person. Yes, Rudd and Brown are the leaders of those gov'ts, respectively, but they are just one of many who will be making policy decisions. I think it is that odd over-emphasis that leads to many of our problems in electing a president. It becomes about the cult of personality--people feel they have to 'connect' on some weird personal level (like the folks who thought Bush would be a good guy to have a beer with and voted for him for that reason).
And the flip-side is that NOBODY can embody ALL the traits that people are looking for. If any of the Founding Fathers or more recently Roosevelt or Kennedy were running today people would find them lacking. News flash to Obama supporters and detractors: he's not the Messiah and he most assuredly isn't the Devil either. IF he is elected he will be the head of an administration, he will not be doing this on his own. We may have the likes of Edwards, Gore, Clinton, Holbrooke, etc. all coming together to try to right the sinking ship that Bush has left us with.
I'm a believer that we get the government we deserve, and BTFAN i agree that we have no one to blame but ourselves. But we CAN all do something, which is to cut the cynicism, to show the same respect for our elected officials as we expect from them. To complain about the two candidates that we have after such a long and comparatively substantive primary season is highly cynical and unproductive. I may not agree with McCain on most issues, but he has had an esteemed career in the Senate and I can't think of many other Republicans better qualified to run for the presidency. And Obama may still be learning and may be better rhetorically at making speeches than handling interview questions but does that justify your comment that he "can't seem to find his butt with both hands"? I think not. What can we hope to build if all we're doing is tearing down??
"But we CAN all do something, which is to cut the cynicism, to show the same respect for our elected officials as we expect from them. To complain about the two candidates that we have after such a long and comparatively substantive primary season is highly cynical and unproductive."
Ummm..isn't that supposedly one of the reasons that we are in Iraq? To give people the freedom to express opinions, even if they are negative or anti-government? What is going to change if people do not start standing up and complaining?
With the war, the economy and the asshole in the white house, I am having a very hard time NOT being cynical.
It is exceptionally hard at this point in time in the US to not be cynical. Actually, let me rephrase: up until this election season it was exceptionally hard. But I honestly found this year's primary to be the most substantive in recent memory, and to have a choice between Hillary and Obama felt like an embarrassment of riches (i'm a Dem, so i won't comment on the Repubs though i did watch some of their debates). Has that fixed the American political system in one fell swoop? No. But are we perhaps on the road to something better? Yes I believe we are. I see some light.
The problem with cynicism is that too often it leads to paralysis and inaction. It gives people license, as we saw in 2000, to just declare the system broken and walk away--to not do the hard work, make the hard choices to actually improve things. It is much easier, for ALL of us, to be armchair critics then to roll up our sleeves and get to work.
And again, for clarity sake, I never meant to say someone cannot complain or make negative comments, merely to question whether cynicism and disrespect of the two candidates is the most effective way of building a better system, a better world.
I'm gladd your seeing a light and see us on the road to something better.
Please, Please, Please I do not want to get into name calling and more sillyness. I re-read my origional post and can't for the life of me see what caused all that "shit", yesterday.
I like you was expecting the 2008 election to be the turning point in this 8 year disaster, I am disappointed.
**********************
The problem with cynicism is that too often it leads to paralysis and inaction. It gives people license, as we saw in 2000, to just declare the system broken and walk away--to not do the hard work, make the hard choices to actually improve things. It is much easier, for ALL of us, to be armchair critics then to roll up our sleeves and get to work.
************************
Again I just don't agree. many of us who complain do take part in the system. Do many positive things and work hard to make it better, and then watch it all go in the tiolet.
I spent 4 years in the military believing I was being a good citizen. That was my first encounter with gov failure. I vote in every election. I have worked in local campaigns. Being gay like you (this is an assumption) I carry twice the tax burden and get half the representation.
I e-mail my Senator and Congress person at least once a month about every issue from global warming to tax breaks for the rich.
I watch C-Span and Public tv as much as possible to get the truth.
We just put Solar on our house at a great expense because it's the right thing to do. I am a law abiding citizen.
I go out once a week and pick up litter, again because it's the right thing to do. I give money and time to community, health, and civic projects.
I do what I can when I can even when I'm tired, or can't afford it because it's the right thing to do.
And yes I complain and bitch and moan. I express my concern and disappointment with a system that is broken. Yes I do it with foul language and caustic remarks for which I'll never apoligize.
I've earned the right to do it my way and the real point is: Even if I had done nothing, never tried, never helped, never served I would still have that right.
You and I are different, neither is wrong. You give respect freely, I believe respect comes the old fashon way - it's earned.
BT, i commend all your efforts. Seriously. You rock. You're clearly giving 110%. And I suspect, though i'd need some data on this, that most in the gay/lesbian community are more active, more informed than your average American. Unfortunately, you (i, we) are still in the minority. And until that number changes, until the MAJORITY of Americans participate we're stuck. I AM heartened, though, by the numbers that registered and voted in the recent primaries and 2006 mid-term elections. That's part of the "light" i referred to.
I understand your frustration and disappointment. I feel it often. But I would ask that for just a minute you put yourself in Obama, Hillary, or (gasp) McCain's shoes. Unlike Bush (and his daddy issues) I believe all three have gone into politics to make this country better (according to each's vision of what 'better' is). Now imagine you work for as long as McCain did trying to craft a humane immigration reform bill that gets quashed because people in this country would rather yell and namecall than actually compromise and get something done. Gotta be disappointing.
Or that you're Barack and you uproot your young family and go on the road for more than a year, schlepping from hotel to hotel, with a grueling schedule that includes so many media events and appearances (because god forbid the American people actually sit down and read a newspaper or the two books he's written) it makes your head spin, only to be told people don't "know you" or still think you're a Muslim (as though that's the end of the world), or your wife hates white people. Talk about disappointing. And then someone says something like "out of 300 million we can't do any better than these guys?" Ouch. I guess I feel like if they're out there trying they deserve a bit more respect for their efforts. And perhaps a bit more empathy. If YOU are fed up, imagine the toll it takes on those who give their entire lives to this. Politics is a marathon of disappointments for all who participate, progress is sometimes gut-wrenchingly slow. We didn't get into this mess overnight, we can't expect to get out of it quickly either.
I am a BIG believer in civil discourse because this country ground to a halt around the same time people stopped being respectful of other people's views. We have more modes of communication than ever before, yet less ability to truly communicate. We speak at one another, we vent, but we rarely listen. And nothing changes--go figure. And i submit it's not for the faint of heart, the weak (sheep, as you might say) to engage in civil debate, even of the most important, heartfelt issues. On the contrary, it takes an immense amount of courage, patience and skill to really listen, learn and still attempt to persuade. It can also be highly effective, which i witnessed first-hand during the gay marriage debates in Massachusetts.
I think it's important to try to model the behavior we expect from others. So yeah, BT i TRY to start from a place of respect (give it "freely" as you say) because I don't think i've earned the right to judge unless i've tried to walk a mile in the other person's shoes.
Nice speech, well written but; I'm not buying any of it. First I have no sympathy for any candidate"
******************
you're Barack and you uproot your young family and go on the road for more than a year, schlepping from hotel to hotel, with a grueling schedule that includes so many media events and appearances
********************
You can't be serious, you can't. I don't think anyone put a gun to his head and made him "uproot", his family or made him schlepp from hotel to hotel. HE CAN STOP ANYTIME HE WANTS. I'm pretty sure he took his arrogrant self and jumped at the chance to be the Pres.
Nothing wrong with that because I believe he thinks he can make a difference. As I said I don't think he is a bad man. He's not sinister or evil.
He just doesn't inspire me. I think he's being handled. I think he's phony, and he's on a power rush. But; then anyone who runs for President has to want power and want it badly. Again not always a bad thing.
And even if he's pure at heart he still has to battle this broken system.
*********************
Now imagine you work for as long as McCain did trying to craft a humane immigration reform bill that gets quashed because people in this country would rather yell and namecall than actually compromise and get something done. Gotta be disappointing.
***********************
yes imagine this x 100 -- add health care(18 years and nothing done),
Energy (35 years and nothing done),
the war on drugs - ha ha There is no war on drugs, it's a war on Black and Brown people and the gov is winning.(our country has more people in prision per capta the any other country IN THE World!! That's pretty startling for a country that runs around hyping FREEDOM)
Education( The us is 37th in the world) the richest country in the world can't afford to educate it's children(That's a lie the richest country in the world won't educate it children).
I'll stop but; the point is you can easily list 50 major problems that have existed for 15-20 years or longer and nothing gets resolved.
Then ask the question WHY?? If the 2 party system doesn't jump out and smack you in the eye - well your just not really looking.
*********************
I AM heartened, though, by the numbers that registered and voted in the recent primaries and 2006 mid-term elections. That's part of the "light" i referred to.
***********************
All this would be wonderful if we had "one man/women one vote" and we really had choice's. At the moment we don't.
I'm sorry some little dog and pony show about the virtues of the delegate system is pure bullshit.
************************
I think it's important to try to model the behavior we expect from others. So yeah, BT i TRY to start from a place of respect (give it "freely" as you say) because I don't think i've earned the right to judge unless i've tried to walk a mile in the other person's shoes.
***********************
I agree to an extent this is lofty and gentle and a wonderful attitude, except: When I'm paying their bloated salaries, their bloated expenses and incidently they work for me. Trying to work your life around the incredable messes they make and there is no light in sight. Then I have every right to judge, to demand better performance and again that respect must be earned.(It sure as hell hasn't been)
And yes 300 million people this just can't be the best we can do. The system as it stands will never let us find the best....(IMHO)
Mysticmb, you say this, "What can we hope to build if all we're doing is tearing down??"
I'm sorry to have to break it to you, because you come across nicely, but WE ARE BEING TORN DOWN and it's been happening for a long time and nothing is changing whichever of these two party's are in charge.
And yet you blame us (US citizens who vote) for getting the government we deserve. I don't know, your post had my head spinning with your psychology.
And we are largely who we elect, unfortunately. Yeah, i do blame our citizenry to a large extent: the 80% that originally supported this stupid war, the more than 50% that didn't vote in 2000, people who don't take the time to get informed about issues so when they hear a misleading sound-bite they can have the good sense to dismiss it. This is not to say there are not people out there at the local and state level doing their darndest, but unfortunately we live in a democracy where the majority always rules. And the MAJORITY are just as culpable as the few they elect.
But we didn't elect these guys - the representatives did. We ALLOW our government to vote on it's self. That is the MAJOR fault. If we all voted and they all were counted, and we still came up to who we have - then I'd say we did our best.
I am not a Democrat or a Republican, I'm an Independent always have been, always will be. I had to sign up as a Democrat to vote in the Primary for Hillary( what's up with that shit!!) then I had to re-register as an Independent. Why because I'm not a Democrat. Yeah talk about paralysis and inaction. (I had to do the same thing last election -why??). Wonder how many people don't vote in the primaries because of this nonsense, then I get the great news that your vote really doesn't count - great (Super Delegates ring a bell)FUCK!!
mysticsmb
So I'm just confussed and dismayed when you use terms like "comparatively substantive primary ", again compared to what??
You may see a light; I see the system imploding on its self. It's rigged, smoke and mirrors and we buy into it, hook line and sinker. Latch onto every diversion and buy all the cheap talk and expensive non-results.
Obama is not the messiah, neither was Hillary. I am not an Obama hater. I think he's most likely a decent man. Incredabily arrogrant and certainly not brave but; still a decent man. No matter what he does he can't be worse then Bush. But; again is that the best we can do??? Better then Bush!!
I'm going to vote for Obama, but; it won't be because I believe in him. It will be - better then Bush. That's a sad commentary.
So I'm going to suspend this conversation - 4 years in the furture. And when we still have no health care, the troops are still in IRAQ and still without proper equipment(they will be there forever - count on it),alternative energy is still on the back burner, gay rights - ha ha ha, Womens rights ha ha ha, Rowe V. Wade is gone and global warming has had 4 more years to strangle the planet, 2 or 3 hundred thousand more jobs are lost, and the baby boomers get a bad rap for expecting that SS they paid for - yep then tell me it's not the 2 party system. Because Obama, Hillary or winnie the Poo won't be able to get squat done.
I hope I'm dead wrong. I've been watching this shit for 30 years and it's never been this bad, or maybe like many others I just wasn't really paying attention.
I'm not a democrat or a republican either. I want to be able to vote for the candidate I feel best fits me - and our system does not allow that. Not only do you have to be a registered under a certain party - but then my vote isn't in the final say...no matter what.
I'm tired of not having a say in our government. We all deserve to have a say; to be heard. To be a part of the forging of our government, in that constant state of change. But we aren't - and change isn't in our, the people's interests. It's in the interests of the government that hasn't left. It's in the interests that does not plan on leaving... that does not plan on changing.
btfan, I was out an about with mom earlier and I told her that everyone thought this nation couldn't do worse then Nixon. Nixon has been replaced.
The American people is this country's greatest asset. -- George W. Bush 2/12/03
rovermom :)
I can vote for Mickey, with millions of other voter's - and each and every time - it's not the people's voice that gets the person in office - it's their comrads. My vote, your vote - every one's vote does not count on the national level, unless you are a delegate.
Our system says that we are ok with not having any power as a people. We allow to have someone else vote for us.
Come November, they count only the representatives' vote... again. They might tally ours, but the final decision is not of the people's vote - it's the government's vote.
It's why so many people DON'T vote. I want the voice of the people back in our government.
I wish i had more time to go into this in depth, but alas, not tonight. So quickly, I went to a symposium a few years ago (some time after the 2000 debacle) at the JKF School of Government where the whole "one person, one vote" versus representative democracy was discussed. I wish i could remember more specifics but i came away after a thorough discussion of the pros and cons thinking that representative democracy was a better system than pure popular vote, which quite frankly isn't all it's cracked up to be. I don't agree that it necessarily gives more power to the people.
To my knowledge we have never had anything different in this country, but that does not mean it couldn't be changed if enough people wanted that change. And as more people wake up and become politically active i think that could happen. Let's face it, a huge percentage of Americans still don't even understand how the election process works. But if you're passionate about this issue, make some noise, reach out to others in your state, because i believe delegates are chosen at the state level. We should at the very least have a national dialogue on the issue, revisit it in light of the state of our current democracy.
By the way, it's a pretty poor excuse for why people don't vote. Voting should be mandatory. My girlfriend is from a country where everyone must vote, and while i bristled at the idea initially, i'm coming around to it being a good idea. But of course Americans would never go for it, they'll rant and rave about freedom, just the way they have about the freedom to drive over-sized gas-guzzling SUVs. Sometimes freedom's over-rated, or, as my Russian grandmother used to say about this country "you're free all right, free to starve."
Simple, yet, it makes sense. Why should I invest all that time, me being the poor class, when it makes no difference?
If our vote actual meant something, more people might actual vote...
Our system was set up by our fore fathers in politics, and they decided that the people were not smart enough to make the decision.
when I had to take Government and Economics my senior year in high school, I went up to my teacher during that first week and asked for a tutor. I had never asked for one ever. But knowing when it came to politics through out my history classes, and looking through that book......none of it made any sense.
I was told to just wait and he'll find someone for me. My teacher was and still is a local politician. I never got a tutor, and he just said do your best. He passed me on by just giving me 60...on everything.
it's not that I'm not smart enough, it's just I don't understand bullshit.
I do know that having a representative voting system allows corruption to not leave, and it allows the system to breed a different kind of corruption.
What we need to learn is the national government is not our government - it's the politicians. The president means nothing...or at least that is what it was originally.
More people vote for the national government then their local - and it's the local government in which the people actually have say.
Most people think their vote makes a difference, on the national level - and want to have that say on the national level...and they don't care if it's not counted, because they will still say, "you should vote anyway".
But why should I? The only reason to vote is to have a say and to make a difference.
My vote has no national voice...ever.
We can debate and vote for the next president, till the cows come home - and it ALL means NOTHING.
If ALL the people (not the delegates) voted for Nader, or didn't even show up, I bet either Obama or McCain will win. That voice might actually say something - but still either McCain or Obama will swear in come January.
If our country is for the people by the people, then why do I not have a vote (voice) that is counted?
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127 Comments
Why isn't anyone addressing
Why isn't anyone addressing the role of economic globalization, the World Bank, the IMF, and the WTO? Why aren't we talking about how multinational corporations are becoming more important than any government body? Why don't people realize that this corporate power structure trumps national sovreignty all over the world? That's what all these Bush and neocon policies are leading up to... maximize privatization, dismantle government and social welfare programs, dismantle economic regulation.
Soon, I suspect, the only feature that will be left to distinguish national powers will be their military force...
hardlyart
No one even wants to admit that we are owned by the corporations and will all soon become serfs. Maybe we allready are and are to busy watching, MTV, the NFL, Prince Obama and all the other stuff devised to keep us from paying attention. Shame on us it works....
btfan2
Uhmm...
I think going so far as to imply that we will return to a feudal system is ...well, going a little too far. But I get what you mean. Surfs, peons, pleblians. What's really happening is just the increasingly wide gap between the rich and the poor getting wider. With more people on the poor side.
Honestly though, despite our politics and housing crisis and corrupt government and dependence on earth-burning fossil fuels, we still have it better than other countries. For a good look at the influence of global corporate power, read The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein.
Hardlyart, right on, right on
Great post. :) Peace, Jodie
Here we go again Obama
Is a GOD he can do no wrong,he's The Messiah "The Coming one.I would not VOTE for OBAMA if you put a gun to my head .
Nice
I am not voting for him either.. nice to know there's someone else :)
Peace!
so what
your gonna vote 4 the old man who'll croak 2 months into office?
"Heard they'd do anything for a klondike, Well I'd do anything for a blonde-dike." - kayne west [[stronger]]
Dee Dee I Love you
Shit!! Don't tell my wife!!
Still kicking ASS and taking names. Hot Dog!!!
btfan2
Well DeeDee, then you're going to love this!
Be sure to watch both clips.
Clip #1
http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2008/02/06/video-interviewer-pic...
Clip #2
http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2008/02/12/video-obama-supporter... responds-to-his-video /
There's a thin line...
If given that choice...
Please vote for him, Deedee!
And then work like hell to dethrone him 4 years from now!
Here's an interesting letter from an honest Wall Streeter:
Major DNC Donor to Party Treasurer: Obama is a Bad Investment
Native Americans Against Obama
Native American's Against Obama-Where?
Native Americans Against Obama-When?
Native Americans Against Obama- Words
Certain Zealots who supported Clinton
and refuse to accept her defeat would have you believe that Hillary supports or would allow the sleezy behind the scenes mechanizations designed to put her on the ballot.
I don't believe for a minute that she would have anything to do with that kind of back room crap. She is too honorable. Do her supporters have any idea how low and reprehensible your arguments make your candidate look?
I suspect most of the "take it to the convention" and "write in Hillary" sites are actually run by Repugnicans.
If Hillary is behind it or condones it that makes her the immoral slickster her opponents have accused her of being for years.
Your friend,
Rusty
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“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
Unfortunately, and
Unfortunately, and fortunately, she's human.
She made clear of how deceptive she can be, when she approached Edwards to unite, to try to control the debates - thinking they were off mic.
rovermom :)
Life is a 3D puzzle and everyone has a piece!
NEW! OurChart Photo Assignment and My Blog
slander against PUMAs
Yeah, Rovermom, and she proved how tenacious and strong she can be by sticking to her health care ideals all these years and the tons of work she's done on behalf of the 911 first responders.
"I suspect most of the "take it to the convention" and "write in Hillary" sites are actually run by Repugnicans."
Nope, not true at all. But that is what the bots/sections of mass media want people to believe so the lies keep getting put out there. And of course Hill has nothing to do with PUMA, just more slander, no proof whatsoever.
But thanks for reminding me of her!
Bored now with the ObamaHaters Let's play something else
Time to rail against - TiBette.
Dear Ilene;
Please kill off 1/2 of TiBette next season. I have several suggestions. Here's my first:
Tina (who is no doubt a Hillary-hack from way back) cannot get over the fact that Bette refuses to write in Hillary on the ballot in November. She gets drunk and dies in a horrible car accident. Alternate ending, she just ends up disfigured and Obama visits her in the hospital. In the meantime, Bette leaves her for a hot young beer heiress who's filthy rich.
I can't decide if the kid should be in the car or not. Maybe in the car, but not strapped in because Tina is at heart a really bad mother.
Your friend,
Rusty
TyBalter '08
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“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
Question
If Tina dies and there is a funeral, does this mean we will finally see Tina's parents (throwing a bone to the Tina
fanaticsfans)?LOL. Rusty, everyone knows
LOL. Rusty, everyone knows Bette and Tina are my favorites but that was effing funny! ;) I've missed your black humor.
I second that
effing HYSTERICAL!
Yo, Peacekitty
Just joshing ya.
"I've missed your black humor." Careful. I am on the hunt for OC bigots.
Your friend,
Rusty
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“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
Declaring myself neutral
I'm editing this comment because I didn't understand the context of your "black humor"/bigot comment. MinnieZlata was apparently very upset about being accused of racism and I hadn't read your exchange with her before I replied to you. I stand neutral in this argument.
I don't think it's fair to call someone a racist for not wanting to support Obama. I respect everyone's opinion on here and no one should be attacked personally for their views.
The enemy McCain
McCain doesn't call attention to this but one blogger has.
Maybe it's time to view McCain as a whole person...
Obama Talks About Lifting a Child In Bangladesh From Poverty... John McCain Already Did
But I'll bet Obama didn't call her a "_unt" when he did it.
Oh, wait; nevermind. That's what Grumpy McBush called the beer heiress that lifted him out of poverty. The one he dumped his wheelchair-ridden wife for.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-c...
Your friend,
Rusty
=======
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
did you complain when women on the Lword
called each other cunts?? Also, does that name calling negate the very wonderful thing he did by adopting his daughter, Bridget, probably saving her life, taking care of her, loving her for years?
Do you know anything about adopting a child? Do you know anything about how much that means to the children, the families, the friends, the parents??
You smashed Hillary repeatedly because of her vote on the Iraq war, and now you endlessly retort with McCain calling his wife a cunt.
I wonder if anyone is ever allowed a mistake (or two) in your world...
Displays of humanity are never meaningless and deserve mention.
"You smashed Hillary repeatedly"
Lie. I pointed out that I voted for her despite her war vote.
And the "he called his wife a _unt" refrain is a joke. I'm sick of the media ignoring and glossing over McBush's screw ups. Lighten up.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/07/23/by_howard_kurtz_when...
No, I don't know anything about adoption except it has nothing to do with deciding if someone will make a good president.
And oh yeah, did you know that McBush called his wife a _unt?
Your friend,
Rusty
=======
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
re: did you complain...
Yes, he adopted a child, but this is also the man who thinks children are better off in the foster system than having same-sex parents. Because she, like every child deserved a family (what child doesn't). Yet he divorced later, leaving that same child one from a broken home.
Of course this certainly is not a unique situation, and I personally do not have a problem with it (life is too short to live with an asshole) but the hypocripsy of it all make me sick.
I'm not trying to take away from the fact that he has done some noble things in his life; but thinking a child is better off in our broken systems rather than w/ a stable, same-sex couple is just bat-shit crazy.
No one is perfect...
...and it will be up to us to convince him – or convince those responsible for passing legislation – that same sex adoption should be allowed. But again, does his opinion negate the good he has done? Actions speak louder than words, just words...
Apathy?
We don't got no stinking apathy. At least not on the Democratic side, anyway.
We do have millions of new registered voters thanks to 2 dynamic, qualified candidates going for the nomination. We have a shot at a filibuster-proof 60 vote majority in the Senate; we have a candidate going after states that haven't voted Democratic since the 60s. Even if he doesn't win those states, there's a pretty good chance his coat tails are going to help with some of the state houses.
On OC, we seem to be top heavy with anti-Obama PUMAs right now and it's important to remember that they are a tiny (if noisy) part of the voting public. Most Hillary supporters are following Hillary in supporting Obama.
Your friend,
Rusty
=======
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
I am ready for a similar speech in the US!
"Partnership and cooperation among nations is not a choice. It is the only way, the one way, to protect our common security and advance our common humanity."
"Walls cannot stand"
"Walls can be torn down"
Do you think we'll get this speech here - a speech to "tear down our walls?"
Senator Obama started his speech using the "wall" of Berlin as a literal reference and moved through his speech to have it mean all "walls" of commonality and diveristy among peoples of the world. Because he did this, I will also.
European nations have been tearing down their walls of religiously induced homosexual discrimination since 1762. Of course, the fight for full national rights for European homosexuals are of a more modern nature, as are ours. But, the difference here is that the changes made in Europe are on the national level - not relegated to any state or lower legal plane. European countries are recognizing the rights of their gay citizens and making changes. They are truly tearing down their "walls."
When are our politicians going to stop picking and choosing "verses" of political legality to live by? When are they going to live by the "entire book?"
Nothing but love
Tex
I have changed my mind...
I'm now voting for Clinton.
.
.
.
Kate (Hilarity) Clinton.
She's the only one who makes me laugh.
I'm with you!
Count me in - Kate is as close to politics as I ever get; and she sure does make ya laugh! (not that politics don't make you laugh (cry?) sometimes too)
Minnie Zlata
I do admit to being nowhere as informed as your are. I appreciate your input to this board. I wish there were some McCain supporters on this board just to get the info.
I'm am having a really hard time getting on board for Obama. But; don't plan to vote for McCain. I'm an independent and was a dedicated Hillary supporter. I thought I would be able to move from Hillary to Obama without much bother. It's just not working.
I'm still waiting for Obama to say SOMETHING!! He is great with scripted speaches but; if interviewed without a script I find him painful to watch and listen. I constantly get the feeling that he doesn't really have a stance he is willing to stick to. I get the feeling he's being handled but; by whom???? That's whats got me worried.
Then there's McCain I tried to watch him on C-SPAN the other day. I try to catch as much C-SPAN as I can because I just can't stand the talking heads. Anyway McCain was in a town meeting or some such set up and it was painful also to be kind.
He didn't seem to be able to complete a sentence he was all over the place and didn't seem to be able to make much of a point about anything.
So here I am watching one man who can't seem to find his butt with both hands and another who is to old, way past his prime and certainly no friend of women, not that Obama is much better.
I just keep saying 300 million people in this country and this is the best we can do????
We need to get rid of the strangle hold of the 2 party system. These 2 are just a recipe for more of the same. (IMHO) We as citizens need to clean house (Congress and Senate).
I don't know what to do. I can't vote for McCain, I don't like Obama but; 4 more years of these crazy people scares me to death.
So hasn’t it all worked out well for Rich Corporate America and the Military complex and we can keep picking up the tab.
Watching this election nothing has changed once again we the people have no real choice. But; we have no one to blame but; ourselves.
btfan2
I agree with you, Btfan2
"So hasn’t it all worked out well for Rich Corporate America and the Military complex and we can keep picking up the tab."
You nailed it with this sentence. Peace, Jodie
oh stop
You know I'm being cynical and making it all worse.
Just kidding -- Thanks
btfan2
Don't just blame the two-party system
I think it's a bit more complicated than blaming the two-party system. Many democracies abroad feature primarily two-party systems, with some minor third-party activity. When I talk to foreign friends, however, about American politics, the one thing they all mention is how the individual is over-emphasized in our political arena. In Australia, or England, for instance, the focus is on electing a GOVERNMENT, not a singular person. Yes, Rudd and Brown are the leaders of those gov'ts, respectively, but they are just one of many who will be making policy decisions. I think it is that odd over-emphasis that leads to many of our problems in electing a president. It becomes about the cult of personality--people feel they have to 'connect' on some weird personal level (like the folks who thought Bush would be a good guy to have a beer with and voted for him for that reason).
And the flip-side is that NOBODY can embody ALL the traits that people are looking for. If any of the Founding Fathers or more recently Roosevelt or Kennedy were running today people would find them lacking. News flash to Obama supporters and detractors: he's not the Messiah and he most assuredly isn't the Devil either. IF he is elected he will be the head of an administration, he will not be doing this on his own. We may have the likes of Edwards, Gore, Clinton, Holbrooke, etc. all coming together to try to right the sinking ship that Bush has left us with.
I'm a believer that we get the government we deserve, and BTFAN i agree that we have no one to blame but ourselves. But we CAN all do something, which is to cut the cynicism, to show the same respect for our elected officials as we expect from them. To complain about the two candidates that we have after such a long and comparatively substantive primary season is highly cynical and unproductive. I may not agree with McCain on most issues, but he has had an esteemed career in the Senate and I can't think of many other Republicans better qualified to run for the presidency. And Obama may still be learning and may be better rhetorically at making speeches than handling interview questions but does that justify your comment that he "can't seem to find his butt with both hands"? I think not. What can we hope to build if all we're doing is tearing down??
Plenty of blame to go around...
"But we CAN all do something, which is to cut the cynicism, to show the same respect for our elected officials as we expect from them. To complain about the two candidates that we have after such a long and comparatively substantive primary season is highly cynical and unproductive."
Ummm..isn't that supposedly one of the reasons that we are in Iraq? To give people the freedom to express opinions, even if they are negative or anti-government? What is going to change if people do not start standing up and complaining?
With the war, the economy and the asshole in the white house, I am having a very hard time NOT being cynical.
I agree
It is exceptionally hard at this point in time in the US to not be cynical. Actually, let me rephrase: up until this election season it was exceptionally hard. But I honestly found this year's primary to be the most substantive in recent memory, and to have a choice between Hillary and Obama felt like an embarrassment of riches (i'm a Dem, so i won't comment on the Repubs though i did watch some of their debates). Has that fixed the American political system in one fell swoop? No. But are we perhaps on the road to something better? Yes I believe we are. I see some light.
The problem with cynicism is that too often it leads to paralysis and inaction. It gives people license, as we saw in 2000, to just declare the system broken and walk away--to not do the hard work, make the hard choices to actually improve things. It is much easier, for ALL of us, to be armchair critics then to roll up our sleeves and get to work.
And again, for clarity sake, I never meant to say someone cannot complain or make negative comments, merely to question whether cynicism and disrespect of the two candidates is the most effective way of building a better system, a better world.
mysticsmb
I'm gladd your seeing a light and see us on the road to something better.
Please, Please, Please I do not want to get into name calling and more sillyness. I re-read my origional post and can't for the life of me see what caused all that "shit", yesterday.
I like you was expecting the 2008 election to be the turning point in this 8 year disaster, I am disappointed.
**********************
The problem with cynicism is that too often it leads to paralysis and inaction. It gives people license, as we saw in 2000, to just declare the system broken and walk away--to not do the hard work, make the hard choices to actually improve things. It is much easier, for ALL of us, to be armchair critics then to roll up our sleeves and get to work.
************************
Again I just don't agree. many of us who complain do take part in the system. Do many positive things and work hard to make it better, and then watch it all go in the tiolet.
I spent 4 years in the military believing I was being a good citizen. That was my first encounter with gov failure. I vote in every election. I have worked in local campaigns. Being gay like you (this is an assumption) I carry twice the tax burden and get half the representation.
I e-mail my Senator and Congress person at least once a month about every issue from global warming to tax breaks for the rich.
I watch C-Span and Public tv as much as possible to get the truth.
We just put Solar on our house at a great expense because it's the right thing to do. I am a law abiding citizen.
I go out once a week and pick up litter, again because it's the right thing to do. I give money and time to community, health, and civic projects.
I do what I can when I can even when I'm tired, or can't afford it because it's the right thing to do.
And yes I complain and bitch and moan. I express my concern and disappointment with a system that is broken. Yes I do it with foul language and caustic remarks for which I'll never apoligize.
I've earned the right to do it my way and the real point is: Even if I had done nothing, never tried, never helped, never served I would still have that right.
You and I are different, neither is wrong. You give respect freely, I believe respect comes the old fashon way - it's earned.
btfan2
110%
BT, i commend all your efforts. Seriously. You rock. You're clearly giving 110%. And I suspect, though i'd need some data on this, that most in the gay/lesbian community are more active, more informed than your average American. Unfortunately, you (i, we) are still in the minority. And until that number changes, until the MAJORITY of Americans participate we're stuck. I AM heartened, though, by the numbers that registered and voted in the recent primaries and 2006 mid-term elections. That's part of the "light" i referred to.
I understand your frustration and disappointment. I feel it often. But I would ask that for just a minute you put yourself in Obama, Hillary, or (gasp) McCain's shoes. Unlike Bush (and his daddy issues) I believe all three have gone into politics to make this country better (according to each's vision of what 'better' is). Now imagine you work for as long as McCain did trying to craft a humane immigration reform bill that gets quashed because people in this country would rather yell and namecall than actually compromise and get something done. Gotta be disappointing.
Or that you're Barack and you uproot your young family and go on the road for more than a year, schlepping from hotel to hotel, with a grueling schedule that includes so many media events and appearances (because god forbid the American people actually sit down and read a newspaper or the two books he's written) it makes your head spin, only to be told people don't "know you" or still think you're a Muslim (as though that's the end of the world), or your wife hates white people. Talk about disappointing. And then someone says something like "out of 300 million we can't do any better than these guys?" Ouch. I guess I feel like if they're out there trying they deserve a bit more respect for their efforts. And perhaps a bit more empathy. If YOU are fed up, imagine the toll it takes on those who give their entire lives to this. Politics is a marathon of disappointments for all who participate, progress is sometimes gut-wrenchingly slow. We didn't get into this mess overnight, we can't expect to get out of it quickly either.
I am a BIG believer in civil discourse because this country ground to a halt around the same time people stopped being respectful of other people's views. We have more modes of communication than ever before, yet less ability to truly communicate. We speak at one another, we vent, but we rarely listen. And nothing changes--go figure. And i submit it's not for the faint of heart, the weak (sheep, as you might say) to engage in civil debate, even of the most important, heartfelt issues. On the contrary, it takes an immense amount of courage, patience and skill to really listen, learn and still attempt to persuade. It can also be highly effective, which i witnessed first-hand during the gay marriage debates in Massachusetts.
I think it's important to try to model the behavior we expect from others. So yeah, BT i TRY to start from a place of respect (give it "freely" as you say) because I don't think i've earned the right to judge unless i've tried to walk a mile in the other person's shoes.
mysticsmb
Nice speech, well written but; I'm not buying any of it. First I have no sympathy for any candidate"
******************
you're Barack and you uproot your young family and go on the road for more than a year, schlepping from hotel to hotel, with a grueling schedule that includes so many media events and appearances
********************
You can't be serious, you can't. I don't think anyone put a gun to his head and made him "uproot", his family or made him schlepp from hotel to hotel. HE CAN STOP ANYTIME HE WANTS. I'm pretty sure he took his arrogrant self and jumped at the chance to be the Pres.
Nothing wrong with that because I believe he thinks he can make a difference. As I said I don't think he is a bad man. He's not sinister or evil.
He just doesn't inspire me. I think he's being handled. I think he's phony, and he's on a power rush. But; then anyone who runs for President has to want power and want it badly. Again not always a bad thing.
And even if he's pure at heart he still has to battle this broken system.
*********************
Now imagine you work for as long as McCain did trying to craft a humane immigration reform bill that gets quashed because people in this country would rather yell and namecall than actually compromise and get something done. Gotta be disappointing.
***********************
yes imagine this x 100 -- add health care(18 years and nothing done),
Energy (35 years and nothing done),
the war on drugs - ha ha There is no war on drugs, it's a war on Black and Brown people and the gov is winning.(our country has more people in prision per capta the any other country IN THE World!! That's pretty startling for a country that runs around hyping FREEDOM)
Education( The us is 37th in the world) the richest country in the world can't afford to educate it's children(That's a lie the richest country in the world won't educate it children).
I'll stop but; the point is you can easily list 50 major problems that have existed for 15-20 years or longer and nothing gets resolved.
Then ask the question WHY?? If the 2 party system doesn't jump out and smack you in the eye - well your just not really looking.
*********************
I AM heartened, though, by the numbers that registered and voted in the recent primaries and 2006 mid-term elections. That's part of the "light" i referred to.
***********************
All this would be wonderful if we had "one man/women one vote" and we really had choice's. At the moment we don't.
I'm sorry some little dog and pony show about the virtues of the delegate system is pure bullshit.
************************
I think it's important to try to model the behavior we expect from others. So yeah, BT i TRY to start from a place of respect (give it "freely" as you say) because I don't think i've earned the right to judge unless i've tried to walk a mile in the other person's shoes.
***********************
I agree to an extent this is lofty and gentle and a wonderful attitude, except: When I'm paying their bloated salaries, their bloated expenses and incidently they work for me. Trying to work your life around the incredable messes they make and there is no light in sight. Then I have every right to judge, to demand better performance and again that respect must be earned.(It sure as hell hasn't been)
And yes 300 million people this just can't be the best we can do. The system as it stands will never let us find the best....(IMHO)
btfan2
Whatever, redux
Mysticmb, you say this, "What can we hope to build if all we're doing is tearing down??"
I'm sorry to have to break it to you, because you come across nicely, but WE ARE BEING TORN DOWN and it's been happening for a long time and nothing is changing whichever of these two party's are in charge.
And yet you blame us (US citizens who vote) for getting the government we deserve. I don't know, your post had my head spinning with your psychology.
Peace, Jodie
We are what we eat
And we are largely who we elect, unfortunately. Yeah, i do blame our citizenry to a large extent: the 80% that originally supported this stupid war, the more than 50% that didn't vote in 2000, people who don't take the time to get informed about issues so when they hear a misleading sound-bite they can have the good sense to dismiss it. This is not to say there are not people out there at the local and state level doing their darndest, but unfortunately we live in a democracy where the majority always rules. And the MAJORITY are just as culpable as the few they elect.
But we didn't elect these
But we didn't elect these guys - the representatives did. We ALLOW our government to vote on it's self. That is the MAJOR fault. If we all voted and they all were counted, and we still came up to who we have - then I'd say we did our best.
rovermom :)
Life is a 3D puzzle and everyone has a piece!
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Thank you Rover
Long story longer:
I am not a Democrat or a Republican, I'm an Independent always have been, always will be. I had to sign up as a Democrat to vote in the Primary for Hillary( what's up with that shit!!) then I had to re-register as an Independent. Why because I'm not a Democrat. Yeah talk about paralysis and inaction. (I had to do the same thing last election -why??). Wonder how many people don't vote in the primaries because of this nonsense, then I get the great news that your vote really doesn't count - great (Super Delegates ring a bell)FUCK!!
mysticsmb
So I'm just confussed and dismayed when you use terms like "comparatively substantive primary ", again compared to what??
You may see a light; I see the system imploding on its self. It's rigged, smoke and mirrors and we buy into it, hook line and sinker. Latch onto every diversion and buy all the cheap talk and expensive non-results.
Obama is not the messiah, neither was Hillary. I am not an Obama hater. I think he's most likely a decent man. Incredabily arrogrant and certainly not brave but; still a decent man. No matter what he does he can't be worse then Bush. But; again is that the best we can do??? Better then Bush!!
I'm going to vote for Obama, but; it won't be because I believe in him. It will be - better then Bush. That's a sad commentary.
So I'm going to suspend this conversation - 4 years in the furture. And when we still have no health care, the troops are still in IRAQ and still without proper equipment(they will be there forever - count on it),alternative energy is still on the back burner, gay rights - ha ha ha, Womens rights ha ha ha, Rowe V. Wade is gone and global warming has had 4 more years to strangle the planet, 2 or 3 hundred thousand more jobs are lost, and the baby boomers get a bad rap for expecting that SS they paid for - yep then tell me it's not the 2 party system. Because Obama, Hillary or winnie the Poo won't be able to get squat done.
I hope I'm dead wrong. I've been watching this shit for 30 years and it's never been this bad, or maybe like many others I just wasn't really paying attention.
btfan2
I'm not a democrat or a
I'm not a democrat or a republican either. I want to be able to vote for the candidate I feel best fits me - and our system does not allow that. Not only do you have to be a registered under a certain party - but then my vote isn't in the final say...no matter what.
I'm tired of not having a say in our government. We all deserve to have a say; to be heard. To be a part of the forging of our government, in that constant state of change. But we aren't - and change isn't in our, the people's interests. It's in the interests of the government that hasn't left. It's in the interests that does not plan on leaving... that does not plan on changing.
btfan, I was out an about with mom earlier and I told her that everyone thought this nation couldn't do worse then Nixon. Nixon has been replaced.
The American people is this country's greatest asset. -- George W. Bush 2/12/03
rovermom :)
Life is a 3D puzzle and everyone has a piece!
NEW! OurChart Photo Assignment and My Blog
Rovermom, yes, Yes, YES
Right on, you are correct! :) Peace, Jodie
Not sure what you mean
I'm not sure what you mean by "we didn't elect these guys" Are you referring to the delegate system in the primaries??
bingo
I can vote for Mickey, with millions of other voter's - and each and every time - it's not the people's voice that gets the person in office - it's their comrads. My vote, your vote - every one's vote does not count on the national level, unless you are a delegate.
Our system says that we are ok with not having any power as a people. We allow to have someone else vote for us.
Come November, they count only the representatives' vote... again. They might tally ours, but the final decision is not of the people's vote - it's the government's vote.
It's why so many people DON'T vote. I want the voice of the people back in our government.
rovermom :)
Life is a 3D puzzle and everyone has a piece!
NEW! OurChart Photo Assignment and My Blog
One person, one vote
I wish i had more time to go into this in depth, but alas, not tonight. So quickly, I went to a symposium a few years ago (some time after the 2000 debacle) at the JKF School of Government where the whole "one person, one vote" versus representative democracy was discussed. I wish i could remember more specifics but i came away after a thorough discussion of the pros and cons thinking that representative democracy was a better system than pure popular vote, which quite frankly isn't all it's cracked up to be. I don't agree that it necessarily gives more power to the people.
To my knowledge we have never had anything different in this country, but that does not mean it couldn't be changed if enough people wanted that change. And as more people wake up and become politically active i think that could happen. Let's face it, a huge percentage of Americans still don't even understand how the election process works. But if you're passionate about this issue, make some noise, reach out to others in your state, because i believe delegates are chosen at the state level. We should at the very least have a national dialogue on the issue, revisit it in light of the state of our current democracy.
By the way, it's a pretty poor excuse for why people don't vote. Voting should be mandatory. My girlfriend is from a country where everyone must vote, and while i bristled at the idea initially, i'm coming around to it being a good idea. But of course Americans would never go for it, they'll rant and rave about freedom, just the way they have about the freedom to drive over-sized gas-guzzling SUVs. Sometimes freedom's over-rated, or, as my Russian grandmother used to say about this country "you're free all right, free to starve."
Why do something that means
Why do something that means nothing?
Simple, yet, it makes sense. Why should I invest all that time, me being the poor class, when it makes no difference?
If our vote actual meant something, more people might actual vote...
Our system was set up by our fore fathers in politics, and they decided that the people were not smart enough to make the decision.
when I had to take Government and Economics my senior year in high school, I went up to my teacher during that first week and asked for a tutor. I had never asked for one ever. But knowing when it came to politics through out my history classes, and looking through that book......none of it made any sense.
I was told to just wait and he'll find someone for me. My teacher was and still is a local politician. I never got a tutor, and he just said do your best. He passed me on by just giving me 60...on everything.
it's not that I'm not smart enough, it's just I don't understand bullshit.
I do know that having a representative voting system allows corruption to not leave, and it allows the system to breed a different kind of corruption.
What we need to learn is the national government is not our government - it's the politicians. The president means nothing...or at least that is what it was originally.
More people vote for the national government then their local - and it's the local government in which the people actually have say.
Most people think their vote makes a difference, on the national level - and want to have that say on the national level...and they don't care if it's not counted, because they will still say, "you should vote anyway".
But why should I? The only reason to vote is to have a say and to make a difference.
My vote has no national voice...ever.
We can debate and vote for the next president, till the cows come home - and it ALL means NOTHING.
If ALL the people (not the delegates) voted for Nader, or didn't even show up, I bet either Obama or McCain will win. That voice might actually say something - but still either McCain or Obama will swear in come January.
If our country is for the people by the people, then why do I not have a vote (voice) that is counted?
I was told that voting is good practice.
I've been ready to play...
rovermom :)
Life is a 3D puzzle and everyone has a piece!
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Showing us your cynical side are you?
It's refreshing.