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Eco Maniac: Palin's Polar Problem
September 21, 2008 - 6:13am — Kelly McCartney
I've been a wee bit obsessed with polar bears lately because I keep reading horrifying articles about what's happening to them and, according to some experts, the health of the polar is directly related to the health of the environment as a whole. It should then alarm you to know that polars are now an endangered species.
This comes despite Big Oil's best efforts to the contrary. ExxonMobil funded research by an astrophysicist entirely out of his realm to look at the effects of climate change on polar bears living in western Canada's Hudson Bay. You see, Exxon needed to prove that they were not effected because any steps to protect the bears and their habitats would endanger Exxon's bottom line.
Exxon wasn't alone in their pursuit. According to MotherJones, “Jim Sims, the president and CEO of the Western Business Roundtable, which reps for oil and mining interests, sent an e-mail to colleagues detailing a strategy to 'quite possibly reverse' the ruling, if the worst came to pass.” The "ruling" being the polar bears' confirmation as endangered. Well, the polars were granted their endangered status earlier this year and the bad guys wasted no time in striking up the band of dissent. The Pacific Legal Foundation, a conservative legal advocacy group that is representing Congress of Racial Equality (?!?), the California Cattleman's Association and the California Forestry Association filed the requisite '60-day notice' on July 30 alerting the Interior Secretary and the Fish and Wildlife Service that a case was on its way.
Their case hinges on the findings of the Exxon research and the undercutting of the world's premier polar bear expert Dr. Steven Amstrup who did a study for the U.S. Geological Survey. Amstrup concluded that most polar bears would be gone by 2050 because “as the sea ice goes, so goes the polar bear.”
One of the results of the melting sea ice is that the polar bears are having to swim long distances to find food. Ten bears were recently spotted swimming in the open sea; eight were within 15 miles of the shore, but the others were 35 and 50 miles out.
So how does Sarah Palin fit into this mess? In January of this year, Alaska's governor wrote an op-ed for the New York Times in which she offered this: “They are worthy of our utmost efforts to protect them and their Arctic habitat. But adding polar bears to the nation’s list of endangered species, as some are now proposing, should not be part of those efforts... I strongly believe that adding them to the list is the wrong move at this time. My decision is based on a comprehensive review by state wildlife officials of scientific information from a broad range of climate, ice and polar bear experts. The Center for Biological Diversity, an environmental group, has argued that global warming and the reduction of polar ice severely threatens the bears’ habitat and their existence. In fact, there is insufficient evidence that polar bears are in danger of becoming extinct within the foreseeable future — the trigger for protection under the Endangered Species Act.”
Not sure what or who was included in her “comprehensive review” but just a couple of weeks ago a survey by the National Snow and Ice Data Center found that Arctic sea ice was down to its second-lowest level ever which "primarily reflects melt in the Chukchi Sea off the Alaskan coast and the East Siberian Seas off the coast of eastern Russia." The Chukchi Sea happens to be called home by one of the world's largest polar bear populations. It also happened to be worth $2.66 billion last year in oil and gas rights to the U.S.
Knowing how tightly tied Palin is to Big Oil, you can connect the dots from there, but watch this second video first to see what she's willing to sacrifice in the name of profits.
- Kelly McCartney's blog
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121 Comments
Obama's full quote on his daughters and pregnancy
“I’ve got two daughters; 9 years old and 6 years old,” Obama said. “I am going to teach them first of all about values and morals. But if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby. I don’t want them punished with an STD at the age of 16. You know, so it doesn’t make sense to not give them information.”
As a mother and a grand mother, I see nothing to criticize with his statement. I feel the same about my daughter and grand daughter.
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
sure..
it's clear we hold different views.
Personally being pregnant isn't "punishment". As if it was meted out by someone or something against a person. It's life - and we are all for life here, especially for the polar bears, right?
The fact that it is more difficult to be a single mom is clear. I was one. It wasn't easy, but I was one after divorce - although I was pregnant before marriage. I never considered it punishment. I considered it lack of contraception. I'm all for contraception, but never would I consider a pregnancy as a result of consensual sex punishment nor the baby as a result punishment.
His quote is harsh - regardless of context. And, I am sure if one of his daughters became pregnant he would strongly consider his future grandchild as more than a fetus or punishment. However, based on his record - doubtful.
Here's what's harsh
Taxing employer-provided health care benefits.
http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09
/mccains_health_care_tax_increa.html
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
Here's what's harsh
Cheating on your wheel chair bound wife who waited for YOU while you were a POW and then dumping her to marry a beer heiress.
Link to the story is here.
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
Here's what's harsh
Requiring rape victims to pay for their own rape kits.
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
Here's what's harsh
Forcing a 12 or 14 year old child to bear her rapist's baby. That's the position advocated by the McCain Pain platform.
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
hahaha
that was pretty good - thanks for the laugh :)
Can we all change the
Can we all change the subject now? :)
Rusty: How can you hate Tibette?? Those actors really bring it.
Carlin: You keep telling me how nice I am. Trust me, not always nice. ;)
Speaking of extremist positions on abortion
The Republican platform goes beyond overturning Roe v. Wade. It opposes all abortions with no exceptions in the cases of rape, incest or to save the life of the mother.
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
Obama's position on Choice
This is from the Obama Biden Web site:
Supports a Woman's Right to Choose:
Barack Obama understands that abortion is a divisive issue, and respects those who disagree with him. However, he has been a consistent champion of reproductive choice and will make preserving women's rights under Roe v. Wade a priority as President. He opposes any constitutional amendment to overturn the Supreme Court's decision in that case.
Preventing Unintended Pregnancy:
Barack Obama is an original co-sponsor of legislation to expand access to contraception, health information and preventive services to help reduce unintended pregnancies. Introduced in January 2007, the Prevention First Act will increase funding for family planning and comprehensive sex education that teaches both abstinence and safe sex methods. The Act will also end insurance discrimination against contraception, improve awareness about emergency contraception, and provide compassionate assistance to rape victims.
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
Obama's prior positions on Abortion
"But Obama's record on abortion is extreme. He opposed the ban on partial-birth abortion -- a practice a fellow Democrat, the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan, once called "too close to infanticide." Obama strongly criticized the Supreme Court decision upholding the partial-birth ban. In the Illinois state Senate, he opposed a bill similar to the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, which prevents the killing of infants mistakenly left alive by abortion. And now Obama has oddly claimed that he would not want his daughters to be "punished with a baby" because of a crisis pregnancy -- hardly a welcoming attitude toward new life."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/01/AR200804...
Carlin......
Did he really say that? "punished with a baby" What kind of human being thinks like that.
A child is a gift, not a punishment.
OMFG.....
Yeah, he said "punished with a baby"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbZJYWjkAPo
Hummm....
Thank you.
Opposing the Partial Birth Abortion Ban was hardly extreme
In the House, the vote was supported by 218 Republicans and 63 Democrats. It was opposed by 4 Republicans, 137 Democrats, and 1 independent. Twelve members were absent, 7 Republicans and 5 Democrats.
In the Senate the bill was supported by 47 Republicans and 17 Democrats. It was opposed by 3 Republicans, 30 Democrats, and 1 independent. Two Senators were absent.
The Supreme Court voted 5-4 to uphold the ban. Again hardly an extremist position. Here's Obama's statement Gonzales v. Carhart:
"I strongly disagree with today's Supreme Court ruling, which dramatically departs from previous precedents safeguarding the health of pregnant women. As Justice Ginsburg emphasized in her dissenting opinion, this ruling signals an alarming willingness on the part of the conservative majority to disregard its prior rulings respecting a woman's medical concerns and the very personal decisions between a doctor and patient."
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
If it were a kitten
instead of a gasping for air aborted infant .. or a baby panda instead of a gasping for air infant or any other animal born early (or aborted early) ... there'd be more outcry ... and defense of those little ones "gasping for air"
The Born-Alive Infants Protection Act of 2002
As a state legislator in Illinois, Senator Obama chaired the Illinois Senate Health and Human Services Committee. A nurse, Jill Stanek, appeared before the committee to lobby for the committee to approve the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act of 2002, which would have defined a baby born alive as a result of an abortion to be a human being deserving legal protection. At the time, there were news reports in Illinois of such babies being left to die. Ms. Stanek related her own story of seeing such babies being taken to a soiled utility room and left alone to die".
Obama, the committee chairman, joined with his fellow Democrats to defeat the bill. This was despite the fact that the bill was drafted to ensure that a woman's right to choose was protected. Nevertheless, he argued and voted against the bill stating -- wrongly -- that the bill was unconstitutional and posed a peril to the viability of Roe v Wade.
On March 30, 2001, Obama was the only state senator to speak in opposition to SB 1095. The bill was carefully limited, its language unambiguous. It applied only to premature babies, already born alive. It stated simply that under Illinois law,
"the words ‘person,' ‘human being,' ‘child,' and ‘individual' include every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is born alive at any stage of development."
There was no conflict between this bill and the right to a legal abortion.
An identical bill -- the Born Alive Infants Bill -- was passed by the U.S. Senate 98-0 with support from even Senator Barbara Boxer, the Senate's leading pro-choice-champion, who stated that the bill did not pose any threats to the Roe v. Wade decision.
----
Palin may not be the poster child for PETA or the SPCA but Obama isn't doing much better when it comes to some humans.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/08/obamas_abortion_challenge_1.html (please note... conservative source)
Jill Stanek Admits Mistake
The major backer of the legislation and the one the 527s are using to attack Obama has admitted she mis-stated the facts on Obama's vote on this issue to the Chicago Tribune.
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/08/21/jill-stanek-admits-mistake...
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
It was never about protecting children
BAIPA was an anti abortion poison pill.
Illinois already had a law to protect aborted fetuses born alive and considered able to survive. The Illinois bill Obama voted against would have undermined Roe v. Wade. The Illinois State Medical Society, also opposed the bill because it interfered with the doctor-patient relationship and expanded civil liability for doctors.
The Illinois bill was bad legislation because it:
Created a special status for the survivors of abortion – mostly late-term abortion. The BAIPA clarified that these survivors were "children."
Would have immediately usurped the rights of the parents without any hearing or legal process.
Would have mandated taxpayer funds be used for the health care as long as the needy child was alive, administered by still another government bureaucracy.
The federal bill that was passed was absolutely NOT identical to the Illinois bill.
Media Matters does a good job of debunking the Obama infanticide claim:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200808220022
For additional reading:
http://www.alternet.org/rights/80556/
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/08/19/obama-and-the-infanticide-smear-b...
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
wow
1.The Illinois bill was bad legislation because it:
Created a special status for the survivors of abortion – mostly late-term abortion. The BAIPA clarified that these survivors were "children."
Would have immediately usurped the rights of the parents without any hearing or legal process.
--Ah, yes, giving special status to a survivor of abortion - a living, breathing human being is a terrible thing obviously... god forbid we protect living humans.
2. Would have mandated taxpayer funds be used for the health care as long as the needy child was alive, administered by still another government bureaucracy.
-- Ah, yes, again... are you saying you are for smaller government? sure you are in the right party? Is it the republicans who care more for human life than the democrats? (broad statement) but clearly - the argument is not a winning one... let's support the animals with foundations, government protections and so forth, but not aborted and living humans?? Seriously... if this is the typical argument of a typical democrat of which I am one.. my party is starting to look inhumane and detestable.
I thought Obama was for Universal Health Care? Wouldn't that require a huge amount of bureaucracy and expanded government institutions and require funding to take care of ALL Americans and probably a lot of illegal immigrants - and end up costing the tax payer more money in the long run?
You conveniently skipped the part of my comment
where I pointed out that Illinois already had a law on the books to protect aborted fetuses born alive and considered able to survive.
The bill Obama opposed was nothing but an anti-abortion poison pill.
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
hey
you conveniently skipped ALL my questions above.
:)
any replies or thoughts regarding expanding government or the inhumane treatment of aborted, breathing infants?
sorry
but i didn't conveniently skip it... i didn't respond to it.. just someone writes something it doesn't require a response to every single word.
Heartfelt..........
Ultimately, those with no voice ...... test our humanity.
And in that, we are lacking.
Thank you for this awesome comment Carlin.
**holding back tears**
polar bears--ha!
OK,
I like Polar Bears--who doesn't? But what Palin is doing to Polar Bears PALES in comparison of what she wants to do with women.
Abstenince only (worked real well in her household), anti abortion, anti-gay rights...why would anyone other than a rich, white male conservative vote for her????
I don't care that she has a pregnant daughter. I don't care that she doesn't have much experience (hmmm...Bush did, and look where we are. I don't care she only increased the funds for disabled children a month prior to giving birth to one).
I would like to tell her (in that annoying Northern accent) "Thanks, But No Thanks."
I just don't get it.
Humane Society Legislative Fund Endorses Obama-Biden
For the first time the Humane Society is endorsing a presidential ticket:
https://community.hsus.org/humane/notice-description.tcl?newsletter_id=2...
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
I think that some people
I think that some people have a misunderstanding of why some women do not support Palin. Because a woman does not support Palin doesn't mean that she is an anti-feminist, but that she does not support Palin's views. This election should have nothing to do with whether our candidates are male, female, black, white, religous, non-religous, pregnet, or a veteran. It should be about what is best for this country. These candidates are just people who turned in their application, and are awaiting a follow up for employment. We, the people, are the hiring managers.
I think...
that the women who vote AGAINST Palin are ones with a brain, and not simply voting for someone who has a vagina.
Tender videos
I loved the hug between the bear and the dog.
Is this the last expressions of life?
No comment on ecologic things, I always agree.
well I personally hope
That the domb fucking cunt gets fucking pummeled by a polar bear.
That is all.
Easy, Tiger.
We don't have to wish violence on anyone. Obscurity will do just fine.
yes tigers
They should start tearing apart some mother fuckers too. They've spent too much time on the endangered list.
PS:
Does is spelled d-o-e-s not d-o-s-e.
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
Attention crybabies and whiners
If you can't stand the heat. . . .
I am sick of the bellyaching about people not respecting your opinions. NO, I do NOT respect ALL opinions. I respect your right to have them, but I don't have to respect the actual opinions.
Respect needs to be earned. Back up your arguments with decent reasoning and sources. If you have reasons for supporting McCain/Pain then present them.
And when someone attacks your argument then argue back. As far as a pack mentality or lack of diversity - most of the women on this site are probably feminists. So yes, most of us will support candidates who support feminism regardless of their gender.
I'll add to this list over the next 44 days, but here's a little something to get us started. I am supporting Barack Obama because:
- I am a vet and he has a much better record on veteran's issues.
- He was right about not going to war with Iraq.
- He will seek diplomatic solutions before bomb, bomb, bombing.
- He showed good judgment by choosing a VP candidate actually qualified to become VP.
- He supports a woman's right to choose
- He expects citizens to take part in their government not sit back and just watch
- I make less than 1/4 of a million dollars a year so my taxes will go down
- I am appalled by McCain's plan to tax employer health benefits.
- Obama has a plan to expand health care coverage.
- But most of all, Obama has a vision for the future and it doesn't include re-running the last 8 years.
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
lol
"Attention crybabies and whiners
If you can't stand the heat. . . .
I am sick of the bellyaching about people not respecting your opinions."
Not everyone requires validation, but they do deserve respect for their opinions no matter how ill informed you consider them to be.
This forum has drastically moved away from a community for the LWord and into a Mental Wankfest for politics. And in my opinion the lead wanker is one of the most vocal anti-palinites on this site....
In my opinion again - this place has taken a nose dive. God, would it be nice to see a few people bitching about Shenny, Jenniki, Tibette, and so on...
Not whining - just sayn'... cuz I really dont' give a rats ass about your opinion, and I personally don't need anyone's validation - especially from someone I don't hold with much regard in the first place.
Carlin' Darlin'
Seriously, I agree with Rusty on this one... I don't have to respect anyones opinions, I can challenge them and question them and state the opinion is based on willful, or unwillful ignorance.
That doesn't mean I dispute the right for them to have their opinions, however uneducated, and I don't stand up for that right (as I have with DeeDee for example many of times, even though I personally have issue with some content). It also doesn't mean I have to respect it. Respect cannot be forced - it can only be earnt. It's hard to respect a rant as an opinion when they aren't even attempting to engage. Mind you, it's a great thing that people care enough to post.
Argh, it's catch 22. In the end I may not like what you have to say, but I will fight for your right to say it. And I have, often - even for bigoted pigs... their opinions suck and hurt me and mine, but they have a right to it.
As for L Word content, I don't care so much abut that - but I do want more fun on the OC. This place is insanely serious, and I know the election is on the forefront, but this passion is for the want of the better country and world environment - shouldn't laughter be important?
Ehh... who knows.
Deean.........
"As for L Word content, I don't care so much abut that - but I do want more fun on the OC. This place is insanely serious, and I know the election is on the forefront, but this passion is for the want of the better country and world environment - shouldn't laughter be important?"........
I SOOOOO AGREE WITH YOU....
Unfortunately, I have had a new ass hole ripped around here for trying to lighten things up once in a while. I've been accused of not taking anything seriously by those who think that they own OC. Those who are experts on every subject presented.
You know, the ones who post and post and post and post on the same blog over and over and over. And, never say anything new. You know...... the girls that haven't had a girlfriend for years but, know EVERYTHING about sex, love and relationships. And, the one's that don't have a pot to piss in, but know EVERYTHING about economics and hate the "elite", i.e. anyone who owns a BMW. And, the one's who will NEVER own a piece of real estate, but know how to solve the real estate crisis...... I could go on and on, but my omelet is just about finished, a little cheese and I'm good to go....
Lesbians are too fuckin' serious. Some chicks around here just need to get laid, and I mean SERIOUSLY laid...
Laughter? Maybe after McCain takes office...... oops, did I just say that?
*LMundecidedAO*
...
lol
i just read this.. ha!
Some Possible Compromises
Good morning, Carlin, Rusty and everyone,
As a rabid and unrepentant Anti-Palinite and mental mastabatory maven, I'd like to suggest some possible compromises.
Today we are on the brink of a potential Second Great Depression and the most important election of our lifetime. No matter who wins on Nov 4, our lives will be changed irrevocably forever and ever. I think desperate times call for desperate measures, or at least a lot of political debate.
But I suggest that OurChart keep all political debate in the sub-category "Wake Up." Right now there are lead political blogs in 3 categories, Wake Up, Hook Up and this one, inexplicably, in Touch Up. Some people really really hate political debate; let's keep it all in one, easily-reachable and easily-avoidable section.
Within the Wake Up area, can we have a running open thread - perhaps linked from a strip at the bottom of the "Wake Up" logo -- where users can start new conversations? This race is going to heat up drastically and the political terrain will change daily, if not hourly. An open thread will be more likely to keep on top of the changes, and would be a good place for activists to meet up and compare notes.
Also, I would say that the very nature of political discourse is debate. Unlike with the arts, all political opinions are not subjective. Rusty hates Tibette. And to that I say "WTF?" But that's really the end of the conversation. But political opinions can and should be debated as to factual accuracy, internal consistency, political fallout, etc. etc. (And I would add that engaging in spirited political debate is a feminist act -- it wasn't all that long ago that politics was considered a male realm to be engaged in away from home or after dinner over cigars while the ladies did the dishes.)
So I adamantly agree that we don't have to respect each other's opinions, but we must must must respect each other's right to those opinions. And I would also add that the right to one's opinion doesn't vanish when a person shares a majority opinion. Also there may be very good reasons why a lot of feminists agree on certain issues and that those reasons have nothing to do with membership in the Stepford Wives Club. Quite the contrary, actually.
But there are some people who seem to want to express their opinions (over and over again) without being challenged. Could the OurChart powers that be create a political "bulletin board" for people who want to express themselves without being challenged? The rules for the bulletin board could explicitly state that no cross talk is allowed in this one forum.
Also, I agree with Carlin that OurChart is strangely quiet (not completely mum, but strangely quiet) on The L Word. I don't think anyone would complain if OurChart added way more L Word content. And it wouldn't even have to be fancy -- just have someone start topics of conversation like the latest "Off Camera" blog and the "Cast the alternate L Word" blog. Get someone to ask: "Which L Word character do you most resemble?" "Has The L Word helped you in your personal life?" "Season One's Dinah Shore episode featured coming out stories -- is yours anything like the ones you heard?" Or whatever -- those are just some ideas off the top of my head. Why not start a blog that asks everyone what kind of L Word content they'd like to see? Why not use the stories that brought us all here to generate users' stories and to build a bigger, stronger, less adversarial and more congenial OurChart community?
What do you all think?
Onward Into The Fray,
Melanie
Register to Vote here http://rockthevote.org/
On point as always.
AS much as I love a good debate, balance is really important.
RE TLW: I wonder if the lack of L Word content has anything to do with the fact that some of us may have already begun the weaning from the series. As thrilled as many of us are that there is more to come - the TiBette reunion completed a long arc and gave a real sense of completion. I know that IC tried to cliffhang some stories but as Bette so sensually stated "it doesn't compare".
V
Motaterz that was
Motaterz that was brilliantly put. I completely agree, and I hope that the OurChart editors and bloggers take note of your great ideas. Thanks!
Ditto
Melanie, those are excellent suggestions. I hope TPTB take you up on those.
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
"they do deserve respect for their opinions no matter how ill"
Why? Because they were able to use a computer keyboard? That reminds me of potty training my kids and praising them for taking a dump in the big toilet.
At least my kids got the hang of that. I'm pretty sure that respecting ill formed opinions does not lead to better formed opinions.
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
Thank you Rusty
Respecting ones right to have an opinion doesn't mean I have to respect the opinion. People tend to get those 2 ideas mixed up, and I think they will. Probably because a lot of people require validation of their beliefs, having them is just not good enough.
Deean, as the nomination of Palin proves
this is what happens when we praise mediocrity. It's time to get back to recognizing standards and rewarding excellence.
PS: you got to the point in a lot fewer words than I did.
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
Well I can tell you were in
Well I can tell you were in the military Rusty. That sounded very "drill sergeant." :) You know I like you, but in addition to rewarding excellence, shouldn't we also help people learn in a positive way rather than call them "cry babies and whiners?"
Just my humble two cents.
PK, I like you too but
If someone posts an argument with which I disagree, I will point out what I see as the flaws.
Let's face it, the Obama haters are not going to change their mind because of my or anyone else's arguments. I respond because there might be undecided voters reading their posts. That's the audience I'm appealing to. Not the Obama haters.
I'm honestly not interested in teaching them a better way to argue. I taught argumentation and debate for years and I don't have the time or patience to do it on OC.
Your friend,
Rusty
Check out my Obama / Biden 2008 Blog.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.” ~ H.L. Mencken
Posters on Ourchart
And all of OurChart bloggers that Ilene has that dose NOT want any poster like me yes a lesbian that dose not like and think and VOTE the same way you all do ,so now you guys can have all the politics blogs to yourself now, yes I will leave you all to have them and agree with each other always.Yes go ahead and make jokes "we got rid of her"you know it's really sad that you all only want posters on this site that think like you all.
DeeDee
Courage to post
If I decide to post something, it is with recognition that some (or many) may disagree and/or simply ignore what I have to say. It comes with the territory. If you decide to leave, look at all the excitement and reactions we'll lose. You don't express opinions of the majority here, but from what you post and the way you post it, it appears you enjoy being confrontational and intend to shake things up. Anyone who is confrontational on a site like this is likely to get strong reactions. Some people respectfully disagree, others just get mad and reactive and there's every kind of response in between.
If you want less volatile reactions, find a way to post thoughtful questions or research your ideas and provide solid information to back them. There have been many rousing debates over the months I've participated in OC. I learn a lot from those when they are based on solid facts and background information. My ideas have often been challenged with solid, factual and more accurate information. So what? I appreciate that and learn from it. It takes courage to state an opinion and open yourself up to disagreement.
Lezbeth
one can even state an
one can even state an opinion, because it's an opinion - even if one does not have all these solid factual backing info. some of us learn through conversation and through the experiences of others.
we've all read dee dee's statements of no obama no way no how...
i'm still waiting for the reasons of why...and why palin is not so bad...i'm just waiting to hear her reasons of how she's come to her formed opinion(s?)
sometimes statements are just that, but the reasoning behind it validates their view and people can connect and sympathize the view.
rovermom :)
Life is a 3D puzzle and everyone has a piece!
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