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In Bed with God
May 2, 2008 - 1:16pm — Grace Moon
I’m totally over the Democratic race. I don’t care who wins now. I have no answer for Hillary's constant foot in mouth and Obama is ditching his preacher because he is f’ing up his patriotism. I’m tired of them both. Can we close our eyes and let it just be over?
Speaking of closing our eyes, Gloria Bigelow’s wet dream confession on Monday got me thinking: if we can project our lusty desires into stiff-as-wood (forgive my pun) presidential candidates — the most powerful humans on Earth — then why don’t we do this with religious figures or God her/him/it self? We certainly used to.
I teach a survey of art to undergraduates and we cover works of art throughout history and across cultures. Why is it growing up we are taught about God in a completely rigid and asexual way? At least in art, God throughout history appears utterly sexual.
For a second, forget what you think you know about these most famous images and just look at them through the eyes of desire.
Creation of Adam, (detail) from the Sistine Chapel
Did you all know Michelangelo was as gay as the day is long? And his most prominent Christian works are housed in Vatican City. Oh, the irony of it all.
(left) Michelangelo's David. (right) Tom of Finland sketch
I’ve had this book Love Poems from God sitting in my bookshelf for years. I bought it because there were these great translations of the sufi poets Rumi and Hafiz, as well as poems by Christian and Hindu mystics.
One story that really interested me was St. Teresa of Avila, who lived during the Spanish Inquisition in the 16th century. In fact, her family were conversos, Jews who converted to Christianity so they wouldn’t have to endure having wooden spikes driven under their nails, or a myriad other horrific medieval torture techniques including waterboarding. No wait, I got myself confused. It’s the U.S. military that uses waterboarding, not the Spanish Inquisition.
So Teresa lived during one of the most misogynistic and orthodox periods of Christian history. Yet despite this, at the age of 21 — as her hagiography goes — she ran away from home and moved into a convent where she began to have profound mystical experiences. She wrote about her experiences in poems that the church, of course, tried to destroy and eventually control after she was canonized. Various translations of her work still exist, such as this poem:
Any real ecstasy is a sign
You are moving
In the right
Direction
Don’t let any prude tell
You otherwise.
This sculpture below is entitled St. Teresa in Ecstasy by baroque artist Gian Lorenzo Bernini. I’ve been staring at this image all semester long and it only occurred to me recently this is Bernini’s rendering of Teresa of Avila.
If fucking God is the way to understand the mystery of the divine, then sign me up.
Speaking of closing our eyes, Gloria Bigelow’s wet dream confession on Monday got me thinking: if we can project our lusty desires into stiff-as-wood (forgive my pun) presidential candidates — the most powerful humans on Earth — then why don’t we do this with religious figures or God her/him/it self? We certainly used to.
I teach a survey of art to undergraduates and we cover works of art throughout history and across cultures. Why is it growing up we are taught about God in a completely rigid and asexual way? At least in art, God throughout history appears utterly sexual.
For a second, forget what you think you know about these most famous images and just look at them through the eyes of desire.
Creation of Adam, (detail) from the Sistine Chapel
Did you all know Michelangelo was as gay as the day is long? And his most prominent Christian works are housed in Vatican City. Oh, the irony of it all.
(left) Michelangelo's David. (right) Tom of Finland sketch
I’ve had this book Love Poems from God sitting in my bookshelf for years. I bought it because there were these great translations of the sufi poets Rumi and Hafiz, as well as poems by Christian and Hindu mystics.
One story that really interested me was St. Teresa of Avila, who lived during the Spanish Inquisition in the 16th century. In fact, her family were conversos, Jews who converted to Christianity so they wouldn’t have to endure having wooden spikes driven under their nails, or a myriad other horrific medieval torture techniques including waterboarding. No wait, I got myself confused. It’s the U.S. military that uses waterboarding, not the Spanish Inquisition.
So Teresa lived during one of the most misogynistic and orthodox periods of Christian history. Yet despite this, at the age of 21 — as her hagiography goes — she ran away from home and moved into a convent where she began to have profound mystical experiences. She wrote about her experiences in poems that the church, of course, tried to destroy and eventually control after she was canonized. Various translations of her work still exist, such as this poem:
The Sky’s Sheets
When He touches me I clutch the sky’s sheets
The way other lovers
Do
When He touches me I clutch the sky’s sheets
The way other lovers
Do
Any real ecstasy is a sign
You are moving
In the right
Direction
Don’t let any prude tell
You otherwise.
This sculpture below is entitled St. Teresa in Ecstasy by baroque artist Gian Lorenzo Bernini. I’ve been staring at this image all semester long and it only occurred to me recently this is Bernini’s rendering of Teresa of Avila.
If fucking God is the way to understand the mystery of the divine, then sign me up.
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76 Comments
Perspectives....
It's been interesting and most intriguing reading each of your perspectives.
OMG
I'm majoring in Art History and my instructor this past semester (who was absoulutely lovely) talked about The Ecstasy of St. Teresa in class and she practically taught it the same way you have presented it in your blog. I was so happy to see this on ourchart. Thanks for presenting us with something cultural!
-Ash
God is Sexless
my personal observation of the portrayal of god leads me to the conclusion that he is and should be sexless. he is portrayed as a universal being in a way. both appealing to men and women. in the creation of adam he is a sexually attractive being both sensual (appealing to women) and strong (men). he has a muscular body- strong- yet his mannerisms are gentle.
seems logical to have god represented this way. attracts the masses.
or, it just maybe that Michelangelo was a big homo and his portrayal of god is a bit feminine :)
Bernini's St Teresa is the epitome of actualization. god and heaven being compared to the euphoric feeling of an orgasm. how amazing.
would have been interesting to live in a time where this much sexualization was the norm and so beautifully represented in art.
Thank you
Thank you guys for a great conversation on God and Sexuality. I am a Philosophy/Theology major and love getting into great discussions as these. So Thank you to all who have posted!!!
Hit with the Holy Spirit
Grace, your comment "If fucking God is the way to understand the mystery of the divine, then sign me up" reminded me of how I got involved in the charismatic church. While charismatic black church lacks a strong Christian religious art tradition, the sexualized manifestation of a relationship with God can be found everywhere.
The connection between sex and worship is really clear. The church folk say "The Holy Spirit hits" or that "God sends his annointing" or simply that "God is in the building". And when the church really gets rocking on Sunday morning, the feeling, the energy, the sound is exactly like the church itself is woman having an orgasm. When the service is perfectly executed (sufficient mental foreplay followed by a slow building emotional stroking which leads to an ecstatic outburst and release), the congregation leaves physically, emotionally spent but spiritually energized. People come to church looking for that connection and that release.
I think that's one of the reasons that even non-Christians are fascinated by the black church. It is seductive, addictive and very hard to leave behind - yes - even in the face of the church's patriarchy and homophobia.
V
nice metaphor...
i think it's all about the drum, going back to Africa. the drums have traditionally been used to call God. and the Spirit evoked enters the body, and the recipient begins to dance.
they call it the "holy dance" here. but it's the same dance that Africans and other tribal people have been doing for ages.
and the funniest thing is - i've felt the same *exact* feeling - in a club in NYC. really deep house music, with the repetitive beat, creating the zone. when the music crescendos - that feeling of pure bliss - making you want to jump - that unspeakable *joy* ... in that moment, for me "God *is* a DJ."
What do you think?
Maybe this is off topic a bit but it came to mind: I wonder if the Spirit "enters" us or rather is "called out" of us by the drum. Is that unspeakable joy bestowed on us or is it already within us? It's a semantic difference that begs an even bigger question - Do we already contain the divine?
Any thoughts?
V
definitely agree that we're manisfestations of the divine...
the joy is already ours :), the potential for *bliss* is inherent in each moment.
heaven or hell can be ours, it's all in the point of view we choose to take.
agree that we are "containers" for the divine as well, and even more so, if we've allowed God to come to birth in us.
also, i think that with receiving the "holy Spirit" in general, part of the joy comes from feeling a connection to something bigger than the self.
and i do believe that Greater presences swing by, during some of those bursting moments--Greater in the sense that, the presence is not contained by a human vessel. It's free...
thanks for expanding the thoughts :).
WE are the 'divine' -
WE are the 'divine' - connecting through that inner energy gives us that 'divine' experience - the energy is overwhelming.
rovermom :)
Life is a 3D puzzle and everyone has a piece!
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God is a DJ...
A person could really run with that metaphor! "Last night a DJ changed my life!" :)
ITA about the drum and its power.
V
Your timing is impeccable
I am, at this moment*, writing my last undergraduate paper EVER on Margery Kempe and her consummation of her "marriage" to Christ.
Have you read anything by Caroline Walker Bynum? Her stuff on the body is amazing.
*Okay, not THIS moment, but the ones before and after this one. Really. I swear. And when I was conditioning my hair and retouching my nails I was, um, contemplating my thesis. Yeah.
Orgasm
I can't get over the idea of the orgasm being the divine, manifestation of a spiritual event. A moment of intense physical pleasure can take a person outside of themselves and obliterate everything... sound, sight, thought - just for that moment only to bringing you back to rest once again among mortals on the wings of angels.
The brain being our sexiest organ, our spirits which move us too anything and our bodies being what caries us along. Can't that momentous unification that occurs during climax, of body, mind and soul be a communion of sorts with the universe?
Just a thought
∞ Reach out and touch somebody ∞
humpin the lord
I often imagine god has some beings of a higher level than us that she hangs with. Almost like we are her ant farm or some kind of science experiment that she shows to her celestial buds at mystical barbeques. As for bangin her.... eh, she has more interesting things to hump I would think. Then again, maybe she could be like Zeus with the whole penchant for seducing mortals in strange shapes like bulls and swans. She can have me if she takes on the form of Halle Berry or Nicole Kidman or Charlize Theron or Leisha Hailey....or all of them together...oh god!
agreed...
"I often imagine god has some beings of a higher level than us that she hangs with. Almost like we are her ant farm or some kind of science experiment that she shows to her celestial buds at mystical barbeques."
i think the Creation is part of God's art, like a garden ... that's why there's so much deliberate beauty.
or a play, and that's why there's an equal amount of tragedy.
nature, itself, is both beautiful and cruel.
Great topic, Grace. I have
Great topic, Grace. I have long thought that if we as a culture could bridge the gap between spirituality and sexuality, we'd all be the better for it. The demonization of sex and pleasure in Christianity in particular has always struck me as one of the nastiest and most far-reaching propaganda campaigns in history.
I agree. I mean, how can one
I agree. I mean, how can one be pro-life without sex? It's the renewal and reconnection with life it's self - without sex, life would not be.
The demonization of it, is unnatural. Sex is not a sin - never has and never will be.
When is the age of Aquarius over?
I was raised Christian, but have out grown that mentality. I'm a big beleiver in personal paths and there sin't any room for 'god', as in a higher conscious being - that made everything.
If creation is the only way, and 'god' made everything, who made 'god'? And if there was nothing, where would I be? Who would I be? Questions that plagued me as a young child.
If there is anything, beyond this world, there is a collective energy of all people - and that is where we connect - and I think that is what we feel when we go to church, or gathering of high emotion and high energy, and connect with people in a way that is 'devine'. In a way, we are in both worlds (dimensions) at the same time - we have our physical energy and an inner energy.
And people who are very 'connected' have a greater ability to connect through that other dimension. We are 'god'.
rovermom :)
Life is a 3D puzzle and everyone has a piece!
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i suppose christian history
i suppose christian history is filled with such incidents. i do believe it is so with other major faiths in the world as well. i can think of two.
i don't know if the demonization of christendom and its followers will really help the situation.
not just helping people to accept their sexual natures and enjoying it - but also in creating political change with respect to gay rights.
i don't know - but to me - i think making christians aware of how far off they've gone from what JC was saying - is probably one of the best ways to help us all wake up.
the whole issue's way too complicated anyway. undoing years and years of beliefs and preaching - is personally a very, very painful process. it's not at all easy to leave that thinking behind. it feels like you're leaving God - but the truth is - you're not.
i'd like to suggest creating some T-shirts that say
"God Loves Gay-Hating Christians and Gays Loves Them Too"
Imagine having a whole crowd of gays wearing that while the gay-bashing crowd are screaming god-knows-what.
I'd think they'd feel embarrassed and think twice about what they were doing.
There's no greater weapon than love and forgiveness. Just ask Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela.
Em, my intention is not to
Em, my intention is not to demonize Christianity. For me, it's just an inescapable truth that for 2000 years, the church in its many incarnations has continued to play a huge (and very intentional) role in shaming its believers into thinking of sexual pleasure as sinful and wrong. In particular, female pleasure is especially regulated and frowned upon.
I realize that Christianity isn't the only religion like this, and that not all Christians subscribe to such ideas. But living in the US, where the morals of Puritanism still inform so much of our mainstream culture, and being raised Catholic myself, the effects of Christian dogma as pertaining to sex, sexuality and gender played a huge role in my upbringing. I didn't realize I was gay until I was 14, but I had already left the church by age 12 because I was so disenchanted with the church's attitude towards women, sex, and gays.
That kind of indoctrinated shame is poisonous, no matter what your gender or sexual identity turns out to be.
heys julia - yeah, i know it
heys julia - yeah, i know it was not your intention to demonise christianity. maybe i didn't express myself clearly enough. maybe i'm getting frustrated with some discussion and thoughts both here on OC and on The L Word.. especially The L Word. I also think there's a tendency to impute the misdeeds of some on the whole group of Christianity. like sarah4annah said.. bad deeds are done by people from all groups.
Another point is the other major faiths who have also made sex a shameful act is not deemed as guilty as the Christian faith because of the social nature of their faiths. Christianity has no perceived exclusivity to a certain race. There are Christians all over the world, in all races. Islam has perceived exclusivity to a certain group of races. And so does Judaism. If these faiths were perceived to be universal to all races, then it would be a different story altogether.
With regards to The L Word, from Season 1 to Season 5, save a few occurrences - Christians who act terribly towards gays are demonised. I don't think that's an overgeneralisation. But feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
When I say demonised - I mean these Christians are shown to be "monsters" without showing their side of the story. Why they think the way they do. How much of a struggle it is to do something, they probably, at one point knew was really cruel, but did so because they thought it was God's will.
I don't think indoctrinated shame is exclusive to the Christian or Catholic faith, let alone to any faith. Some of it is cultural. In some Asian societies - sex is viewed as a 'dirty' act and anyone who talks about it openly is considered 'vulgar'.
I'm sorry for the experiences you went through in church. I guess I can't agree with you because I come from a church that talks openly about sex and that describes sex as a beautiful, spiritual act binding two souls together.
Please don't misunderstand me. I have my fair share of struggles being in the church. But the church is filled with people. Not all of them, throughout the ages and now, would in their hearts consider themselves to be believers. Some of them did things for power. Some of them were merely misguided in their beliefs.
Suicide bombers commit heinous crimes because they think it is the will of God. Misguided Christians are misguided because they are misguided. By the stuff in the Bible - which was basically cut and paste and put together by a group of people a long time ago.
As I don't think anyone would like it if I said "Gays are the ones that made AIDS the huge epidemic that it is today". I don't like it when anyone suggests "Christians and the church have been an evil bunch throughout history".
Sorry if i said too much. But i think how we categorise people is important in the long run.
Peace. I appreciate your point of view. :D
Yikes. I think it's
Yikes. I think it's incredibly problematic to even begin to compare the two statements "Gays are the ones that made AIDS the huge epidemic that it is today" and "Christians and the church have been an evil bunch throughout history." Even as a hypothetical hyperbole thing.
The first statement is basely false. AIDS is a huge epidemic today because of post-imperialist cultural and economic factors that lead to lack of access to safe sex education, condoms, and medicine--primarily among impoverished heterosexuals.
The second statement, while a huge generalization which tars all Christians with the same brush, is rooted in inescapable historical facts: some Christians have committed incredibly "evil" acts in the name of their faith. The leadership of the Church has been behind some of the most widespread and well-documented campaigns of atrocities committed against humanity in our written history. This goes as far back as the Inquisition and is as recent to our generation as the Holocaust.
I'm not saying that all Christians have been an evil bunch. I'm not even inferring it. Christians have done incredible, beautiful things in the name of their faith. But that doesn't erase the fact that church and some of its followers have also done horrible, awful things in the name of their God and their religion. Or that the church continues to wreak serious spiritual, cultural and political damage to those marginalized by its dogma, policies and practices. That is a fact.
I get being sensitive to generalizations about Christians and Christianity. But the fact that some people make those generalizations doesn't erase 2000 years of systematic oppression of women, queers, Jews, "heathens," "heretics," the list goes on... systematic oppression that is still happening on so many fronts. I think that is something that Christians have to own up to and reckon with if they want to truly be Christlike. I get that that's not easy. But there you have it.
"I think that is something
"I think that is something that Christians have to own up to and reckon with if they want to truly be Christlike."
Why does a Christian have to own up to something they personally did not do?
Perhaps I don't fully comprehend the injustices certain members of the Christian faith have committed in America.
But I don't get how the whole Christian community should be held accountable for stuff they all didn't do.
Isn't it best that we treat people on a one-to-one basis?
"I think that is something that Christians have to own up to and reckon with if they want to truly be Christlike."
I'm saddened by the misdeeds people of the Christian faith have committed.
But essentially I feel people are just people. We each of us are accountable to our own deeds. And all of us have committed some heinous stuff in our lives here on earth.
I think that's what it's like to be Christlike. To recognise that all are imperfect, especially ourselves.
To project the Holocaust onto the Christian faith, I feel is inaccurate.
As I would never project suicide bombing or Al-Qaeda on Islam. Islam is a beautiful faith and I have several Muslim friends whom I respect and admire. I would never expect them to apologise or feel guilty for the misguided actions of people from their faith.
Religion must always be put in a social context. Nazism sprang out of growing frustration among the German population. Not cuz a bunch of them thought it was God's will to wipe out the Jews. Where does it say that in the Bible?
No - people do evil things in the name of God - because it is convenient to.
That's all.
I think my analogy was fair in that a certain group of people were supposedly made to feel responsible or guilty for something bad that happened. The church is made of millions and millions and millions of people. All kinds.
And we are all imperfect. And we all have different views. And each of us should be made to feel accountable for what each of us has done - not what a certain group of us have collectively decided to do over history.
I understand and respect your point of view. And I understand if you won't agree with mine.
It's cool and fine with me. Just wanted to express mine is all. :D
Hope you're enjoying your day, Julia. :D
yes...
The blanket term of "Christianity" does not equal the teachings of Christ, by a long run ... or at least the teachings that have been attributed to Christ, and left in the bible.
Jesus was a revolutionary cat when it came to love and acceptance. He was a rebel, very subversive in the eyes of the old law...
This is part of the reason he was crucified ... by Rome, I might add--home of the Vatican.
People always give Jews flack for the crucifixion, and the texts promote this point of view--but all "spin" aside, Pontius Pilate represented Rome when he decided Jesus' earthly fate.
And Catholic "guilt," as well as the tendency to fixate on the Crucifixion as the act that "saved man" vs. Christ's actual teachings, could be a case of over-compensation due to the role of Rome, itself, in Christ's death.
Totally agree Eliza. I'll
Totally agree Eliza. I'll buy one of those T's! Love and forgiveness - No greater weapons and they are 2 of the hardest things to learn.
Yay! A customer! I'm
Yay! A customer! I'm charging $20 a pop. Find me outside your place of worship. :p
God and religion
Must agree with eminelli, it is never easy to leave something familiar and an institution like the churh which usually played a huge role in our growing up. But that can never separate us from God. In church out of church, memeber or no memeber you find assholes everywhere.
It takes courage and long deep thought and reconciliation with ourselves to take such deeply personal decisions like leaving the church.
It would take a much greater effort to separate ourselves from God.That I cannot imagine.
sarah4annah
God and Religion ...
I really do believe that God and religion are mutually exclusive. Organized religion often exasperates me. I can never get over how the same people who claim to love God can look past the suffering of another human being because they didn’t fit the notion of what they believe deem appropriate for God. Anyone who blindingly follows a restrictive and exclusionary group is promoting the fall of God’s greatest creation - mankind. Being a follower of God means you not merely tolerate people who may be different from you but that you recognize them as beings who have just as much right to share this space as you do.
I believe that God can be found in everything around us. Just recall the amazement you feel when you see a baby anything. I know next to nothing about art but I imagine that people who create such moving pieces of art in effect project that profound feeling they may have experienced when in communion with whatever Supreme Being they may believe in or at the very least one of God’s creations.
"Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself"
The Prophet - Kahlil Gibran
Human arrogance
I was raised Cathloic and spent a long time "trying" to recover from all the shit dumped on my child heart.
I don't think you can stand on a mountain and see the milky way; feel the summer sunshine, listen to the sounds of the ocean and NOT believe there is SOMETHING going on. I just find it so arrogant that humans believe that we are made in God's image(if so isn't God one fucked up enity??) and that we are the chosen ones. Bullshit!!
I have no clue what, where or how "GOD" is, I just have no use or patience with religion. Religion makes GOD petty and I can't believe that the enity that created all the wonder you can expierence in one day(if willing) wants to be worshiped (especially on a certain day or a certain time of day WTF!! makes no sense), counts how many times you say fuck each day or gives a shit who you fuck. Why would it matter???
I find it absolutely insane that sunlight shinning on a womans head is an affont to this GOD and people buy into this shit, there's such a thing as holy water (all water is holy), sorry the POPE is just a man and not a very good one.
This nonsense isn't GOD(IMHO) its men, men created religion all this silly stuff, sins, guilt and keeping score -- not GOD.( I'm betten GOD has better things to do)
All art is worthy - again (IMHO)
Grace; I to have grown weary with the whole election process.
Now I have to go feel guilty because (pick a reason) . Oh better idea I'll jump in someone else's shit instead make them feel guilty --->
btfan2
Art = Life = Passion!
"For a second, forget what you think you know about these most famous images and just look at them through the eyes of desire."
Forget what I know? That is what I've known & have always seen the sexuality/passion in religious art. I actually thought most people recognized that dynamic too... Wasn't the boy who posed for David supposed to be 14 or so?
Maybe this is an underlying reason Muslims forbid any depiction of Mohammed...(it's also a simple way to avoid the race quarrels we've recently seen!)
And in song/music - just listen to the adoration & ecstasy in so many religious pieces (Madonna knows as do many classical composers!). Isn't that what has fired the young minds of us artists growing up Catholic??!!
art history
Thinking back(way back)to my college days in my art history classes wondering why all this religious sexuality in art from many ancient cultures turned into shame, sin, and condemination in Western religions. And especially toward women? I remember ancient art being full of images worshipping the female body, the vulva symbols, and sex as the ultimate ritual act to become closer to the Goddess. The word "orgy" actually meant "secret worship." I'm always facinated with how art history reveals the truths that Christianity has tried to conceal and distort in written history. Great topic Grace. We needed a break from politics!
so totally true..
... there is sex galore in ancient and early civ images G O D.
to be fair it's not just christianity its orthodoxy in general... this discussion is not over.
xo
Great topic Grace
The first thing that came to mind was the orgasmic moan, "ohgodohgodohgodohgod..." Then I got into the art parallels. Bernini's Teresa of Avila, the image of her complete release in the throes of passion is also paradoxically a look that could also be release in pain. Didn't Rumi (and others who write of that divine ecstasy also equate it with pain?) That takes the whole idea into another direction.
Rather than go there, I'm linking this post to a poem by Ellen Bass. Her book of poetry titled Mules of Love has a section of poems called "If There is No God." One of the poems in it is titled "God and the G-Spot." I couldn't find that one on-line, and would have to ask her permission to copy it here. Instead, I found another poem from that section of her book. Although it is hetero-erotic and geriatric-erotic, not homo-erotic (which God and the G-spot is), it has that holy grail aspect to it. Here's the link
http://www.ellenbass.com/jackgottlieb.php
Lezbeth
homosexuality began the human race
i was talking with my art history methods professor (one of the greatest men and biggest feminist I know) he who knows that i am a lesbian and that i was raised in the church well anyway he posed this scenario to me.
all of us who have been raised in the church have been trained to recognize god as male. if you recognize this and any preacher would agree that this is true. well if this is true and we follow the bible story God and Adam created Eve together. two male being created the second human...i may be crazy but that sounds kind of "gay" to me (pun intended)
this is not to step on anyone's toes but the reason that this would ever be brought up is to change the way that women are viewed by saying yes God could be a woman therefore raising woman's status in the world or having accept homosexuality on some form. but of course we all know that neither will probably happen they will just argue with themselves in a circle until everyone fall asleep from boredom
i just thought it was a very interesting take on things. once again i don't want anyone to take offense to this...i didnt set out to offend anyone with this post
God : a male ?
I do agree that we instinctivly think that god is a male but creating Adam like him doesn't mean "sexually" like him.
That's men interpretation.
So, what is sexual is just us.
Michelangelo pictured a man but the spirit of god is also usually pictured as a bird. I don't know enough about it to clarify that....
But I really wonder how religious people accepted all this "pornography" in catholic churches... or should I ask when, because I think Middle Age icons don't represent naked people (but I am not sure) ... I think that it appeared later (Renaissance?).
I also wonder about Christ on the cross, that is a really gore picture. No peace in it and I wonder how people can relax for a prayer with this tortured man in front of them...
... I don't want to offend anyone (either).
No Offense Here
I'm going to use this one. What a hoot!
Lezbeth
I guess the brainwashing worked some.
I got scarred as a teen by a teacher talking to us (all girl catholic high school religious retreat) about having spiritual sex with god. I can't do it. I just don't want to associate god with sex at all. And I'm not religious, I don't go to church but my fam is very catholic and my society is 9/10 religious and eh... What does that make me if I refuse to go there?
Btw, I can totally appreciate your post, it's a great topic but for me to read it I have to mentally compartmentalize it so I don't totally soak it in. Lol.. I must be sounding crazy.
commitment and devotion
To be 'in bed with God' and reach the ecstacy that Saint Teresa had experienced... I believe that one should have the commitment and most importantly devotion... I am alluding this to 'someone's' discussion in another blog...
To glimpse the Divine
... one could look inward:
"i found god in myself/ (& i loved her/ i loved her fiercely)"
Ntozake Shange, For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide When the Rainbow Is Enuf
Alix K.
Welcoming me back
Yowsa! When I came back to ourchart.com just now there was a message on the front page for me saying, "Welcome back, minniesota54."
Is that from God or just the OC editor?
I thought they were one in
I thought they were one in the same.
May I ask 2 questions ?
I like the funny parallel between Michelangelo and Tom of Finland and the poem is really confusing between sexe and god-extasy.
Will I talk again about our dildo in France which is called "gode" (contraction of "godemichet")?
No...
I won't, not again, it's heavy.
By the way, may I ask a question to our art specialist?
Was Giotto also homosexual ? because Pasolini meant it in one of his film ("il Decamerone")- or did I go too far?.
Let's wondering (before the answer) on Juda's kiss (fake kiss, not a homosexual one, of course, but this look...):
This detail is from a fresco in Capella degli Scrovegni in Padova, near Venice. This Chapel is not really pleasant to visit because it's highly protected and f*ck your pleasure away (it's a sort of bunker where you can stay only ten minutes to watch, and no picture of course - BUT all of that is because it hurts the fresco, light and oxygen hurt, they are not human beings).
(I am too talkative, sorry, just pass).
Question n°2:
And about Pasolini, have you seen "Theorem" where a man seduce a whole family and who is pictured as Jesus ?
this may go beyond my scope
of knowledge...
but i wager to say that there were tons of homos in the arts, in the clergy and in politics as there are today, and forever will be... Amen.
Yes and no
The difficultly with finding homos is that homosexuality as an identity wasn't introduced until the late 19th century. So, without a doubt, there have been people who have preferred homo-sexual acts to hetero-sexual acts, but the designation of "homosexual" wasn't discursively established until sexology, psychology, and other medicalizations of ethics and lifestyles took shape in the late 19th c. -- hence the linguistic preference for the adjectival usage of "sodomite" prior to that time. Take English history and literature alone (my fields), you have a plethora of notorious sodomites, from English Kings (Richard II and Edward II) to English playwrights (Christopher Marlowe was an acclaimed sodomite, who is quoted as saying that all he needs in life are "tobacco and boys").
On a separate note, I'm tres disappointed that I can't attend your seminar at Q-Me Con! I want notes! (Please?)
Ahem
Zara, usually whenever I read one of your (or drunrchick's) posts I get a little turned on with how you ladies write...especially when you use pretty words like "discursively." Now, if either one of you starts to write in the Latin, ummmm, omg. :) Peace, Jodie
Domine Deus
I studied voice for many years, and would be happy to sing to you in Latin any day, Fastgurrrl! (Remember, I'm one of those gay Catholic girls, so have quite a repertoire in the sacred tongue...)
paz y amor siempre
Couldn't help it
Just had to slide in between you two ladies for a moment. Ha! :) Peace, Jodie
P.S. "sacred tongue" ummm, omg, yessssss...
Anticipating Latin
I've intentionally put off learning Latin, out of sheer laziness and, admittedly, fear. .... but "ummmmm, omg" might just be the enticing incentive to make me do it!
St. Teresa in Ecstasy
Wow, there's so much I don't know about you, Grace. :)
Banging the Divine
Will bang God anyday as long as she can have a good conversation with me bfore and after. No aparatus needed. I would like some answers though...
Love the art, and of course Michael Angelo was as gay as the day is long!
sarah4annah
definitely feel that having God enter you...
is like the best sex you'll ever have.
Except once S/He's in, she never leaves & you just keep exploding, and exploding--periodically, whenever you turn your attention to her manipulations.
inspiration
Oh Grace,
you've just so inspired a Theology Major who is graduating today. My perception of God is expanding every day. Can I use some of your reflections for today's Commencement?
Btw, Rumi is one of my favorite poets.