Good Question Ilene! Got me to thinking about sexuality -- my own and my offspring, nature versus nurture, etc.

My own sexual practice started right on schedule I guess after watching the chapter 4 vlog today.(lol - meaning after watching the vlog I believe it was pretty much on schedule. Time wise it was ages ago) Mine was about 2 weeks late actually due to a small chimney fire. So much for romance!

Anyway, I gave it my best high school try, but no matter how many men I slept with I still felt as though it was like trying to get blood out of a turnip. At the time, I didn't even know what was missing, but I felt called to move on.

I approached marriage with the same tenacity and punctuality. Twelve years later, recovered from "shoulding" all over my self I got divorced -- okay a bit behind schedule, but there was a war in '89.

As an out female, I've enjoyed serial monogamy with three women in my life and casual recreational sex to an extent. So, I feel depending on where I am in my life, sex has conformed to the times.

As a mother of two sons -- one of each -- I see nothing that conforms to either the hetero male or gay male stereo type. My first born identifies as hetero and had one girl friend up to the recent past and only now is he moving on though he's 25.

My gay son (21) identifies as a feminist and has been serial monogamous and since his first love heartbreak has been almost virtually celibate (intentional redundancy).

Don't know if my nurturing had anything to do with how my offspring developed to this point, but doubt it was genetic, else they would have conformed to the male stereo-type.

--cg

Wise (wo)men don't judge: they seek to understand. From "Fingers Pointing Towards the Moon" by Wei Wu Wei

for me every real sex encounter has a story, we are more than a body obviosly, so u can separate from your soul and mind. i believe casual sex is like masturbation. i am not saying like a bad thing but it miss the most taste thing that we are, just taking the other as a mirror, cause that all that it isin the situacion. maybe we never get to know the other person even with time but you grow and the other grow in the process,fall in love, falling out of love,learning, and that what's life about... sorry for my very bad english, i am trying
maryro

Oh fer chrissake, what a bunch of crap.
The whole mythology of having a partner and children and a house together is such a crock of navel-gazing, narcissistic tunnel vision.
Some people have a LIFE instead of a girlfriend/sig-ot.
(A life = creative engaging work, long-term goals, and a solid circle of loyal, platonic friends.)
I don't want to ever live with who I have sex with. (*Gasp!*)
I don't want to have kids with who I have sex with.
(*Yikes!*)
Anonymous sex is hot, and no, it doesn't get tired.
I am not constantly on the prowl--it comes and goes in waves, kinda like the seasons (so, every 3-4 months).
But, no, Ilene, I don't think all women are hard-wired for soft-focus monogamy. (snore.)
I am near 40 and feel my life has plenty of meaning, with my own work, within a larger artistic community that I am part of and in which I'm socially and politically engaged, and among my circle of chosen-family.

Ilene, I thought YOU were the storyteller?????




TEAM DANA

Sex is just sex? That's just another excuse to go fool around no strings attached no commitment.Some people can do that but sooner or later you'll get an aching feeling inside for what others have together. Maybe your not wired that way ....That's an excuse.... but hey if you can live with yourself and still have maintain friendships with those women then great. Not my style ...and I like how they playing that out in L Word with Shane . She wants someone in her life but she's afraid of fighting for it . I think it would be nice if she finally fought for that in the last season I think her and Molly would be good together but Shane would have to keep it in her pants and she really messed up a good friendship because her pants were down. That maybe what happened on the show ... but it also does happen in real life as well.Sex for some is the fix it like comfort food to others. Those people struggle with themselves and it won't stop until they are ok with themselves. Sex is fun sex is great sometimes not so much but it is more rewarding with one person to share part of a lifetime with it is awesome .

Shell

is the reason why I want to put a shotgun to my face.

I had my first lesbian ,sexual encounter when I was 16 years old. My best friend,at the time,brought me "out"..hummmm ? She always said that if it wasn't her bringing me out it would have been someone else....Hummmm ?I often wonder "what if"....I always knew I was attracted to woman. My first love came along when I was 18yrs., she was 23yrs. My God...I was in love !!A committed relationship ( or so I thought )..She was unfaithful 3 times that I knew of and after the 3rd. I fianally gave up the "fight" to make the relationship work.

So...there was the "Bar" ! I literally remember telling my friends,before we left the house,I was going to be bringing someone home or better yet...I was going to "get" someone that night. Geez...that sounds awful I know...but it always happened ! I achieved my goal for the evening ! I was like a cat on a prowl ! Yes,alcohol played a big part and OMG the "poppers" while dancing ? Whew.....

Eventually,I met someone and had my second relationship...once again, a relationship I wanted to last forever.....That is until I got screwed over again !

My relationships lasted between 3yrs. and 10 yrs. in lenght.I've not always been perfect,but I know the older I get ( I'm not THAT old :-) the more I respect life,myself and others. My last ralationship lasted 7 years,however we have stayed in touch and although we have both admitted we're "single"...we also have admitted our love for each other and yes..we are still very much in love. This admittance has just recently occurred. Communication and honesty b/t us regardless of feelings being hurt etc. has gotton us to this point. Where it goes from here..only time will tell, as we both have our separate goals in life and directions in which these are taking us....we can both move forward with our plans separately,but also together..no reliance upon the other..until we each reach our goal(s).

Does any of this make sense to anyone out there ? I've often referred to my ex. as her being Bette and I, Tina. Hummmmmmmmmmmm ???

Unlike Senator Larry Craig of Idaho, I freely admit to my gayness, but we (he and I) do share in one glaring similarity - an equally wide stance. Say it with me… “I am not gay – I never have been gay – but dear God Mrs. Craig I like ‘em hard!” For ongoing powder room visits I’ll always be cognizant of tapping feet. So, just when I find myself about to break out some rhythmic foot tappin’ to a softly hummed tune of Sister Sledge, I begin to realize that perhaps I’m the ONLY lesbian in that bathroom. And were it not for some sense of direction and a proper door opening, I might well have been the only WOMAN in that bathroom.

Men are great at the exchange of sex – regardless of their leanings, or tappin’s, as it were. Simplistic in nature, linear and without too much debate; I think sex for men is merely as much a need as spitting on the sidewalk, hitching up their pants, or putting “truck nuts” on the back of their Silverado’s. (I would cite Truck Nuts…but it’s too much fun to Google). I think that “guys”, gay or straight, have the mechanics of need whittled away, via eons of procreative philanthropy. Spillin’ that seed everywhere they go, as my deceased grandmother warned. So, the tap, tap, spill…might be narrowed down to just one tap, and just one spill. It’s pretty simple stuff…even Senator Larry Craig has it minimized to, “if I go here, peek into a stall, tap my foot a couple of times…then I’ll get an intense ‘hummer’.” Delicious! It’s like popping a quarter into a gumball machine; the outcome may be a bit misshapen, and you were really hoping for the much-desired red one, but it will always taste the same. It’s really the joy of that gumball, off-color or not, making that spiral descent into your outstretched hand that drives the whole process.

Women are much more complex, or it would seem. Oh sure, blame the complexities of life on the female, but doesn’t “She” merit a great deal more inspection? My pastor is a female, my physician is a female, my broker is a female, my favorite musicians are females, my life partner is most definitely a female…but my best friend is a “guy”. No, not one I go shopping with or expect him to “fix” my hair at every passing mirror…but a guy…just a regular, straight man, who is my business partner and has a family he goes home to every night, just like me. We talk about hunting – I’ve never been. We talk about sports – I can’t distinguish any sport or team other than college football, which is more of a cultural movement in the south than anything. We talk about cars – yeah, I drive one, but that’s to get from one location to the other. We goof off and comment on the attractiveness of a female client or colleague – and I feel idiotic doing it. So, I don’t always understand everything “we” talk about…but we’re just buddies. We’re kind of a one-tap relationship.

Not so with my girlfriend…Jesus Lord, Gregory Hines would be impressed with the bravado, preening and courting I do to this day, even after ten years of sharing our lives together. She, as a female, simply fills the room with her presence. She is quite the thoroughbred, and I certainly don’t waste my energy on the simplicity of casual encounters just to fill up some recreational time. I’m too damned busy trying to figure out the complexities of the one woman I have at home.

So, I would think, Ms. Chaiken, that your friend who has lost her “drive” for meaningless encounters is probably tired of giving a little bit of herself to a lot of people, when she could give a whole lot of herself to one person. That’s called maturation, which is quite the secret in itself.

not so much by nature but by choice. I really get Shane's drive to be casual with a lot of different people. I think her conquests have not really been all that far-fetched (well maybe a few...). Still, I think there is some part of some women (me included) that crave the thrill and freedom of what Erica Jong called, The Zipless Fuck. A sexual encounter between strangers that has the swift compression of a dream and is seemingly free of all remorse and guilt. It is absolutely pure, there is no power game and it is free of ulterior motives. There is this great quote:

"The zipless fuck is the purest thing there is, rarer than the unicorn and I have never had one."

Shane has, I have, I know others have. The problem is that you can't know in advance if the casual sex you think you're going to have is the unicorn. That's the risk you take. Sometimes, you get hurt; sometimes, you hurt someone else. Sometimes, the motives get revealed too late. Hell, even Shane under the pretext of going zipless has slipped into something more - using sex to forget someone. To push someone away. To punish herself. Clearly, not zipless at all in the end. Power, guilt, ulterior motives all present and accounted for.

For me, monogamy came not because I no longer had the desire for sex with other people. It came because I like who I am with this woman. I like that I can give care and I like that I can be cared for. I like dreaming up futures with her in them. But for me, all of that is separate from sex.

How we got to where we are is anybody's guess. I really fought monogamy for a long time; and yet some how, here I am in the most stable relationship in my circle of friends. It takes work but we work at it.

V

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Are the mechanisms of desire different for women than for men? Are we born that way? Were you born that way or are you a product of your life experiences? Some childhood event, some maternal imprint? Is it a choice? A practice? Is it a stop gap until a relationship finally comes along or is it a way of life?
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Answer ------ YES!!

btfan2

As I read these posts several thoughts cross my mind

How soon til we knew we were gay? (read: what age)

What was your process for coming out?

Was it serial dating or a BIG relationship that put you most in touch with your feelings about women?

This last one I think is the one I struggle with most.

My answers: I've always known, but Im not out to everyone in my life yet. Im struggling with the last one because I intentionally chose not to come out in my 20's, which was a choice that I question a lot these days. You are more willing to take risks when you are young. Is some of this based on growing into your career, becoming more financially solvent, hiding out in a comfortable relationship (last one is mine)? I'd love to hear some perspectives on this. Finally how much of this is just THE HUMAN CONDITION? Straight or gay, lesbian or no, is the wanderer without an orientation, or personality type.
So?...(your thoughts here)

I don't think it' about differences between men and women, nor their own sexuality. I believe that there is a strong hold that society plays within our world and out, that we need to settle, more so in my case, before I came out, that I needed to marry a man in order to feel secure. In order to feel that I was meeting societies request of me, although it did not make me happy.

And since being alone, I have found, since there have been no relationships and therefore everyone think my coming out was a cry to get out of the relationship, which is not the case, but you have to be able to love yourself, more importantly be able to love yourself in a sense that you are comfortable to be by yourself for a long time, and once you can do that, and the fear of getting hurt goes away, you emerge a new you, much like a blossoming flower, it takes time and nurturing to bring forth that "new" person, but rushing it ruins it, taking time to see where something goes with another and yourself takes time, and work. Sometimes our lives are too busy to take time, or we want what we want and we want it now.

For me, finding myself before finding love or any relationship is important. But sex, I don't know, I had one woman since coming out, I was drunk, for the first time, at the age 25, I have met many women that I fell in love with, but it was more so synthetic love, always looking outside of myself for, and they were straight. Sex is fun and should be fun, and also safe, but sex is not love, love is not sex, the balance between the two are what is inside and outside of the two people. Is it something searching to find outside the self, or is it something that is inside the two and therefore exploration ends, there is a sense of completion, there is no pretend, there is no play there is only the moment of feeling, and knowing that there is no more search outside of one's self, but merely a reflection of what the other has sought after through finding what was in.

I definitely believe that peoples sexual interests and drives change as they grow up. I believe that because I've both witnessed it among my best (gay male) friend, and experienced it myself.

I first met N about 3 years ago, and we quickly began spending time together almost daily (the only execeptions being work schedules or because one of us was having sex). He was polygamous, and was always dating at least 2 men at once in open relationships, while I considered myself bi (or as he liked to call me "non-gender specific"). I would ask him which boyfriend he was seeing on a specific night, and he would ask me if it was a guy or girl, or neither as I slept with trans and gender queers often.

about a year and a half ago we moved from Vermont to Chicago together (thats a whole different story though) and pretty much continued our sex lives in the same manner. After about 6 months though, we both changed.

N is now in a pretty monogamous relationship (with the occasional 3rd), and I pretty much only sleep with women, and wonder if a relationship could work out everytime when before I avoided them like the plague.

I think its because the excitement of it changes, or the drama becomes too much. Waking up next to someone Im not really that attracted to (even if the sex was great) gets old, and so does being single despite great sex. As much as I enjoy the freedom of not being committed to one person, I also sometimes want to be. Living a 'normal' life with someone I care about has become something that I want to experience, when it used to scare me.

(I dont know why I think it matters, but I feel like I should say that I'm 23, 24 in a couple months)

Nice blog ,I am just not brave enough to answer this one.But love reading them.

I believe that how sexual you are has to do with your hormone levels....oh, and alcohol helps too. I get really horny when I'm drunk. ;)
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"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail. Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go."
~T.S. Eliot~

Well done Colorado fan. Good post.

When I look back I think I didn't know what I wanted or what I was looking for, but I knew I wanted something, to connect in some way- physically, emotionally, like Tina said , "I was flailing." I enjoyed men, I enjoyed women, but it wasn't the same kind of connection between the two. I realized that there was something in the other I needed or wanted that the other didn't provide. That's when I knew I wouldn't ever be able to rule one or the other out as a possibility, and I knew I was bisexual. I didn't know any others at the time, so I didn't really define it till much later, but my heart and mind and body knew somethin' was up!
And I think respect plays a bigger part in relationships as you mature, for yourself as well as for others. As I am careening thru my forties, having experienced hetero, homo and celibateland, I think I'm now better equipped and prepared to make the most out of any encounters that lie ahead and really get more fun out of life, not take things so seriously, let it flow.